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Old 03-30-2013, 07:01 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by lamboguy
i didn't miss a thing including the poor work that SHANG-HAI BOBBY had this week. there is no way in hell that Pletcher even wanted to be in this race with that horse, the owner must have put the pressure on.
So because of this, the game is "becoming a joke"??

The guy has a ton of horses, plenty of good horses, quite a few of them run well in major races and some don't. Wow, what a new occurrence.

Add the Louisiana Derby now to his list of triumphs today. Or, to paraphrase you, another "business being in the race for Todd Pletcher."
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:04 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by raybo
In your opinion, or are you guaranteeing that?
Of course it is an opinion, even your "RS blackbox" cannot guarantee anything, right?
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:08 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by RXB
So because of this, the game is "becoming a joke"??

The guy has a ton of horses, plenty of good horses, quite a few of them run well in major races and some don't. Wow, what a new occurrence.

Add the Louisiana Derby now to his list of triumphs today. Or, to paraphrase you, another "business being in the race for Todd Pletcher."
i am happy for all the wins that Pletcher had today, but as you know, people bet their money on these things.

i have been on this board before and knocked horses from other people before the race just like this one. if i know the horse had no business being in this race, don't you think that Pletcher knew as well?
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:20 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by iceknight
Of course it is an opinion, even your "RS blackbox" cannot guarantee anything, right?
Just wondering, there was no mention of "IMO" in your post.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:23 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by mostpost
There were three races at a mile and an eighth at Gulfstream today. The Florida Derby was the slowest of the three. Dreaming of Julie was two seconds faster in the Oaks. Orb is a nice horse and will be a contender in the Derby. Itsmyluckyday was overrated. The Derby winner will be racing next Saturday in the Wood. I do not mean Vyjack.
Will be interesting to see how the Beyers come back from today's Gulfstream card.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:23 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by lamboguy
i am happy for all the wins that Pletcher had today, but as you know, people bet their money on these things.

i have been on this board before and knocked horses from other people before the race just like this one. if i know the horse had no business being in this race, don't you think that Pletcher knew as well?
So, as a trainer, you're going to tell the owner that the horse should not have a chance at getting in the KD? Doubt you would be a trainer of decent horses very long. Granted the horse didn't run to expectations, but he's hardly the first to ever do that.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:24 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Robert Fischer
Will be interesting to see how the Beyers come back from today's Gulfstream card.
Don't expect them to be barn burners. Pace appeared to be rather on the slow side.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:26 PM   #68
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Good. Maybe they will start to realize two preps is ridiculous.
Glad to see some carnage with the new point system.
I agree 100 percent with this statement.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:31 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by raybo
So, as a trainer, you're going to tell the owner that the horse should not have a chance at getting in the KD? Doubt you would be a trainer of decent horses very long. Granted the horse didn't run to expectations, but he's hardly the first to ever do that.
i know the owner puts up his money, i am an owner and i am sympathetic to them. but this game rely's on both owner's and bettor's, without either you have no game. the bettor's need their best interest's at heart at all times. if you looked at past performances and pace number's, which i don't bother with, you would think that SHANG-HAI BOBBY would have given you a better performance than he did from a top trainer.

forget about what's right for owner's and bettor's for one moment, what about the horse. every time a horse enter's the starting gate, he goes to war, its like a boxing match. you would not allow a boxer to enter the ring that is not in tip top shape.

these are very solid points that i have made about this. its the way i feel about the game.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:32 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by raybo
I expected to see Shanghai on the lead, especially coming out of the 1 hole, and a fairly easy pace. Guess the trainer/jockey had other things in mind?
On the NBC broadcast, right before post time, Randy Moss said something about the connections (of Shanghai Bobby) felt Merit Man would go to the front and Rosie would move to the outside of MM.

Why try to change the horse . Should have sent IMO.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:32 PM   #71
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Don't expect them to be barn burners. Pace appeared to be rather on the slow side.
I agree.

If you like Orb for his next race, it should help his price a little as he will be "too slow", if you don't like Orb - it's a good reason to toss him.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:35 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by raybo
In your opinion, or are you guaranteeing that?
It's all opinion. By everyone. I didn't think I had to say that.
But, I do not see how anyone can deny the logic of my opinion. The fractions in the Florida Derby were similar to the fractions in the Tampa Bay Derby. Verrazano, who was closer to the pace, drew off in the lane. IMLD faded.

Now that I look at it, fractions in the TBD were faster than those in the FD. And Verrazano finished at least as well as Orb. I have seen nothing in any of the Derby prep races which would lead me to change my opinion.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:38 PM   #73
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I agree.

If you like Orb for his next race, it should help his price a little as he will be "too slow", if you don't like Orb - it's a good reason to toss him.
IMO, Orb has shown his versatility running well in both fast and slow paced races.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:38 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by lamboguy
i am happy for all the wins that Pletcher had today, but as you know, people bet their money on these things.

i have been on this board before and knocked horses from other people before the race just like this one. if i know the horse had no business being in this race, don't you think that Pletcher knew as well?
You've purported to "know" quite a few things in the past that were found wanting upon verification of the facts. And I'd like to know just how many low-odds horses that you, or I or any other long-time handicapper didn't like before a race ended up winning easily.

I personally know a few trainers who had quite useful win percentages at my local track; sometimes they were hot on horses that ran poorly and sometimes doubtful about horses that ran big.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:47 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by RXB
You've purported to "know" quite a few things in the past that were found wanting upon verification of the facts. And I'd like to know just how many low-odds horses that you, or I or any other long-time handicapper didn't like before a race ended up winning easily.

I personally know a few trainers who had quite useful win percentages at my local track; sometimes they were hot on horses that ran poorly and sometimes doubtful about horses that ran big.
there are plenty of times that a trainer can't pick things up before a race and enter the horse not knowing there is something bothering the horse. an example would be that a horse could have a dental problem that doesn't bother them until he is pulled on by the jockey in the race and the horse could be in distress. there are times when the horses hit themselves during a race and perform poorly. there are times when horses throw their shoes and run bad. we can all excuse things like that. i don't excuse when a horse works poorly 5 days before a race, or the horse doesn't attack his feed tub like he normally does. those are just simple things in horse racing.
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