Are we in free fall deflation?

[so.cal.fan]

I know, I know, gas and food are expensive.
How about everything else, especially residential and commercial real estate?
Lately, I've been hearing that D word from the talking heads and Bernacke himself has used the word.

So......are we going to save the United States or continue to try to save the global economy?

[HUSKER55]

HELL YES ...WE ARE INVINCEABLE!!

ever hear of a democrat yet who didn't sday "tax the rich", "spend more" and "print more money".

I think it is on a chip inside their head.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by HUSKER55

HELL YES ...WE ARE INVINCEABLE!!

ever hear of a democrat yet who didn't sday "tax the rich", "spend more" and "print more money".

I think it is on a chip inside their head.

Do you know that if the government were to tax (confiscate) all millionaires' and billionaires' wealth 100% -- took everything from them -- it would barely make a dent in reducing the debt. This proves conclusively that every single lib only wants to tax the rich so as to have more money to spend and get us even further into debt. There's not one lib interested in reducing the debt. In fact, increasing the debt is their sure ticket to bringing this country to ruin, blaming capitalism for our miseries and forcing socialism down our throats.

Boxcar

[alytim]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Do you know that if the government were to tax (confiscate) all millionaires' and billionaires' wealth 100% -- took everything from them -- it would barely make a dent in reducing the debt. This proves conclusively that every single lib only wants to tax the rich so as to have more money to spend and get us even further into debt. There's not one lib interested in reducing the debt. In fact, increasing the debt is their sure ticket to bringing this country to ruin, blaming capitalism for our miseries and forcing socialism down our throats.

Boxcar

I can see Rick Perry using this paragraph of gibberish in his inaugural speech.

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by alytim

I can see Rick Perry using this paragraph of gibberish in his inaugural speech.

(Ding)

That's three.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by alytim

I can see Rick Perry using this paragraph of gibberish in his inaugural speech.

And I can see that it's been a very long time since you have allowed reality to intrude upon your life.

Boxcar

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Do you know that if the government were to tax (confiscate) all millionaires' and billionaires' wealth 100% -- took everything from them -- it would barely make a dent in reducing the debt. This proves conclusively that every single lib only wants to tax the rich so as to have more money to spend and get us even further into debt. There's not one lib interested in reducing the debt. In fact, increasing the debt is their sure ticket to bringing this country to ruin, blaming capitalism for our miseries and forcing socialism down our throats.

Boxcar

I keep hearing this idea that even taxing the rich 100% would not eliminate the national debt. This is a red herring because no one is suggesting we do that. We are suggesting that we tax them more. It's a long way from more to 100%. The fact is the well to do are now paying an effective income tax rate of 17%. In 1992 they were paying 26%. There is no reason they could not pay as much now. There is no reason they could not pay more.

But, it is true that raising taxes on the well to do will not by itself pay off the national debt. (it will help.) So what else can we do. Where can we cut.

We can cut welfare. Welfare to corporate farmers. Welfare to oil companies.
Welfare to banks. Welfare should be for people. Corporations are not people no matter what the current Supreme Court says.

We can cut defense spending. I've read about too many super weapons systems that ended up being failures.
Another way we can cut defense spending is by reinstating the draft. Mandate that half the personnel in the armed forces be draftees. I just looked at the army pay scale. A private e-1 gets paid $1467.60 a month. (When I started in the army my pay was $78 a month) If we pay a drafted new recruit $700 a month we are saving $767.60 every month times the number of draftees. Continue to pay volunteers at the current rate.

Unfortunately, there is no way the draft will be reinstated, but it is what we should do. Pay rates are high now because they are an incentive to join. reinstating the draft means we don't have to persuade people.

[bks]

Do you know that if the government were to tax (confiscate) all millionaires' and billionaires' wealth 100% -- took everything from them -- it would barely make a dent in reducing the debt.

If the richest 225 hedge fund managers simply paid the same tax rate as the rest of those in the top bracket [that is, if they had the 15% tax loophole closed], virtually every single state budget deficit could be reduced to ZERO.

[JBmadera]

back to the OP's original question: the global economy is in a very peculiar position, extraordinarily loose monetary policy coupled with falling demand. I don't really know which way things will go. It seems that we will either end up with hyperinflation (a monetary phenomenon) or a deflationary death spiral. The original Keynesian's and The Austrian's would have a mega debate on this one.

Take a look at ZB, it hit 147 the other day!!! That is absolutely insane, so if we are to believe the bond market then we are in store for a nasty case of deflation.

Either way, hold on to your hat because it's going to be a wild ride.

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by mostpost

I keep hearing this idea that even taxing the rich 100% would not eliminate the national debt. This is a red herring because no one is suggesting we do that. We are suggesting that we tax them more. It's a long way from more to 100%. The fact is the well to do are now paying an effective income tax rate of 17%. In 1992 they were paying 26%. There is no reason they could not pay as much now. There is no reason they could not pay more.

But, it is true that raising taxes on the well to do will not by itself pay off the national debt. (it will help.) So what else can we do. Where can we cut.

We can cut welfare. Welfare to corporate farmers. Welfare to oil companies.
Welfare to banks. Welfare should be for people. Corporations are not people no matter what the current Supreme Court says.

We can cut defense spending. I've read about too many super weapons systems that ended up being failures.
Another way we can cut defense spending is by reinstating the draft. Mandate that half the personnel in the armed forces be draftees. I just looked at the army pay scale. A private e-1 gets paid $1467.60 a month. (When I started in the army my pay was $78 a month) If we pay a drafted new recruit $700 a month we are saving $767.60 every month times the number of draftees. Continue to pay volunteers at the current rate.

Unfortunately, there is no way the draft will be reinstated, but it is what we should do. Pay rates are high now because they are an incentive to join. reinstating the draft means we don't have to persuade people.

Big Ed, is that you?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by bks

If the richest 225 hedge fund managers simply paid the same tax rate as the rest of those in the top bracket [that is, if they had the 15% tax loophole closed], virtually every single state budget deficit could be reduced to ZERO.

this is complete nonsense. it wouldn't even balance if you conficated every penny from those guys. the latest numbers I find show states had a combined deficit of $108 billion. you're not going to close that deficit by tweaking the tax rates of 225 people.

[JustRalph]

Nothing in Maryland is in decline......price wise

[DJofSD]

Originally Posted by mostpost

I keep hearing this idea that even taxing the rich 100% would not eliminate the national debt. This is a red herring because no one is suggesting we do that.

My BS detector is going crazy.

You guys would take a sucker out of a baby's mouth.

Come on, admit it, just like Jimmy lusting in his heart, all liberals would take every single penny out of any one else's pocket and especially those lucky million and billionaries.

[Tom]

And then suspend elections for two years.

Libs...you can't live with them, you can't live with them.

[bks]

this is complete nonsense. it wouldn't even balance if you conficated every penny from those guys. the latest numbers I find show states had a combined deficit of $108 billion. you're not going to close that deficit by tweaking the tax rates of 225 people.

You're flat wrong. The top 225 hedge fund managers have assets in excess of $200 billion easily.

Funny what you call "tweaking"? The bankster loophole rate is 15%, instead of 35%. The top 25 hedge fund managers average more that $1 billion PER YEAR, with several making multiple billions. Last year alone, taxing the top hedge find managers at the proper rate would have generated more than $20 billion in tax revenue.

Roll back the loophole to its origins just for the top 225, and you have your $108 billion to clear the states [certainly if you leave out CA].

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Ro...r-billionaires

This article from 2007 has much lower personal wealth figures than are current:

http://nymag.com/news/features/2007/hedgefunds/30342/

see also:

http://www.marketfolly.com/2010/03/f...edge-fund.html