Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 10-14-2018, 08:26 PM   #16
Fuss
Registered User
 
Fuss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Red Sox Nation. Always.
Posts: 582
Rep Power: 5 Fuss is a jewel in the roughFuss is a jewel in the roughFuss is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
What NYRA didn't report is that a similar two-track, Pick 4 wager six days earlier is being investigated for a similar issue.
More than anything, if its true, human error twice in a week...,... These are whats known as "dry runs".
Fuss is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-14-2018, 11:32 PM   #17
Fuss
Registered User
 
Fuss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Red Sox Nation. Always.
Posts: 582
Rep Power: 5 Fuss is a jewel in the roughFuss is a jewel in the roughFuss is a jewel in the rough
Read the story.

If you read the Bloodhorse article , whereby NYRA acknowledged past-posting capability happened on October 13th. But no past-posted bet were actually made. That it was just an oversight.

To believe that, then you have to believe what else is in the article.

That a week earlier on Oct 7th, a twinspires.com bettor inadvertently discovered that he could wager into the Pick4 in leg 3. So he did so. Then he immediately canceled his bets and called bloodhorse.com?


wtf? really? That's Impossible to believe. That did not happen. Because if that happened then there is NO way in hell it happened again Oct 13th.
Fuss is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-15-2018, 02:22 AM   #18
PaceAdvantage
PA Steward
 
PaceAdvantage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 58,114
Rep Power: 89 PaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud of
Does anyone really think if the guy at the podium at the NYSE DOESN'T press that button, trading actually WON'T open or close?



It's 2018 racing industry. Time to get your SHIT together...

ENOUGH
__________________
@paceadvantage | Support the site and become a today!
PaceAdvantage is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-15-2018, 02:23 AM   #19
PaceAdvantage
PA Steward
 
PaceAdvantage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 58,114
Rep Power: 89 PaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuss View Post
If you read the Bloodhorse article , whereby NYRA acknowledged past-posting capability happened on October 13th. But no past-posted bet were actually made. That it was just an oversight.

To believe that, then you have to believe what else is in the article.

That a week earlier on Oct 7th, a twinspires.com bettor inadvertently discovered that he could wager into the Pick4 in leg 3. So he did so. Then he immediately canceled his bets and called bloodhorse.com?


wtf? really? That's Impossible to believe. That did not happen. Because if that happened then there is NO way in hell it happened again Oct 13th.
Excellent point. Meet Fuss...
__________________
@paceadvantage | Support the site and become a today!
PaceAdvantage is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-15-2018, 09:08 AM   #20
Gorrex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisville
Posts: 43
Rep Power: 0 Gorrex is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by metro View Post
In the real world tracks should be more transparent with their tote system since they have the ability to track any wager....on track, simulcast, ADW, etc..

They really don't have the ability to track every wager, not in any quick way at least and not without cooperation of lots of 3rd parties.

Tracks cannot see the actual wagers being made into their pools unless they request that information and most times its not searchable (lucky if its not just a printed PDF file).

There WAS a system being designed to do that, but it was expensive and relied on parties with no benefit from it to pay for it.

Tracks see total amounts bet from each source and most have 50+ sources betting into any one track. (and there could be sources betting into each of those)

The current systems are NOT transparent and never will be until they are rebuilt from the ground up. However again, that is extremely expensive, would take years and there is no one in this industry that I'm aware of willing to expend that many resources. (if they even have them)

Anyone here willing to pony up a few million dollars with an absolute guarantee you won't get it back? (tote providers dont really make much money)
__________________

Jason Martin
IT Director
AmWest Entertainment - AmWager

Last edited by Gorrex; 10-15-2018 at 09:09 AM.
Gorrex is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-15-2018, 09:28 AM   #21
Gorrex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisville
Posts: 43
Rep Power: 0 Gorrex is on a distinguished road
Oh and just to be clear.. while I am arguing that no one currently will redesign and build a new tote system, I fully believe it can and needs to happen. The current totes have little motivation or resources to do it. The project will never make financial sense on its own, but it is really required to bring this industry up to date with technology, transparency and general accountability.

The benefits of it would be many, however none of them equate to more profits and thus why it hasnt already been done.

Some of you say it should be easy to design such a system.. on the top of it, it is. However when you add in that every state has different pricing rules, different tax rules, different testing metrics and all of the other hoops you would need to go through.. the base software is not the hard part. Not at all.
__________________

Jason Martin
IT Director
AmWest Entertainment - AmWager
Gorrex is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-15-2018, 09:53 AM   #22
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 41,749
Rep Power: 66 cj is a splendid one to beholdcj is a splendid one to beholdcj is a splendid one to beholdcj is a splendid one to beholdcj is a splendid one to beholdcj is a splendid one to beholdcj is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorrex View Post
Oh and just to be clear.. while I am arguing that no one currently will redesign and build a new tote system, I fully believe it can and needs to happen. The current totes have little motivation or resources to do it. The project will never make financial sense on its own, but it is really required to bring this industry up to date with technology, transparency and general accountability.

The benefits of it would be many, however none of them equate to more profits and thus why it hasnt already been done.

Some of you say it should be easy to design such a system.. on the top of it, it is. However when you add in that every state has different pricing rules, different tax rules, different testing metrics and all of the other hoops you would need to go through.. the base software is not the hard part. Not at all.
Horse racing is siphoning millions and millions of dollars from casinos. Surely a few of the dollars should be used to upgrade things like the tote and the timing system IMO.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-15-2018, 10:01 AM   #23
Tom
Registered User
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 89,124
Rep Power: 116 Tom is a splendid one to beholdTom is a splendid one to beholdTom is a splendid one to beholdTom is a splendid one to beholdTom is a splendid one to beholdTom is a splendid one to beholdTom is a splendid one to beholdTom is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz View Post
That is an unrealistic expectation.
That is the STANDARD in the auto industry, the aerospace industry.....has been for years. It is not unrealistic. It is the way of life.

I once had to supply a corrective action on I was going to improve my part per million rate of 20.

The key to achieving it is to stop whining and making excuses and just do it.

The racing industry is a joke.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-15-2018, 11:09 AM   #24
burnsy
self medicated
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: toga
Posts: 2,274
Rep Power: 11 burnsy has a spectacular aura aboutburnsy has a spectacular aura aboutburnsy has a spectacular aura about
It’s just the same old crap in every one of these complaint threads. When the guy says it’s post time. The tote should be locked. Before the first horse is even walked into position. If you get shut out, it’s your own fault.

No excuses, no well , this and that bull shit. The priority is not the welfare of the average betting public. The industry makes a thousand excuses and there are always the foolish sheeple that will abide and even stick up for it. They will call all of you “horse player” complainers. And act like you are the problem? How many businesses treat their most loyal customers that way? People that point out the big handle numbers, like that’s the only metric are a problem too. Odds don’t swing at the major tracks like that unless mucho coin is going in. So, who do you guys think they really give a shit about?

The answer is pretty ****ing clear when you see this crap happening. It isn’t the general public. They have to “show” that they have handle at all costs. To make the game look popular. And, more importantly, make $$$$$. If you are not betting thousands on these races. You are in a position of no leverage and laughed at as grumpy complainer , horse players. Simple collateral damage. You can bitch all you want , but until the tote is locked like I said it should be, these Jamokes can pour money in up TIL and it seems like past when it should be legal. Some even promise handle to get the best program. In gambling it’s not even fair or ethical. Oh yeah, and it only happens on the days they are catching it and reporting it. Give me a break! I fell off the pumpkin wagon yesterday!
__________________
"If voting mattered, they wouldn't let you do it." Mark Twain

Last edited by burnsy; 10-15-2018 at 11:14 AM.
burnsy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-15-2018, 11:22 AM   #25
ZippyChippy423
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 109
Rep Power: 0 ZippyChippy423 is infamous around these parts
Past posting is a real thing. For anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. Even in the 1973 movie “ The Sting” it was mentioned so I’m sure the past posting cheat goes way back. The movie did not invent the term it just made it more known. Those guys years ago who worked for Autotote that hit a pick 6 we’re past posting all the time. Some of the batch wagering software in the last few decades i believe is involved in past posting.
ZippyChippy423 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-15-2018, 11:33 AM   #26
chiguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 180
Rep Power: 5 chiguy will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage View Post
Does anyone really think if the guy at the podium at the NYSE DOESN'T press that button, trading actually WON'T open or close?



It's 2018 racing industry. Time to get your SHIT together...

ENOUGH

Everyone knows he has to press the button AND ring a bell.
chiguy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-15-2018, 11:44 AM   #27
MonmouthParkJoe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 811
Rep Power: 4 MonmouthParkJoe is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj View Post
Horse racing is siphoning millions and millions of dollars from casinos. Surely a few of the dollars should be used to upgrade things like the tote and the timing system IMO.
I think we can all agree that a tote upgrade is needed, but this might be something that the industry itself would have to own and figure out a way to fund. Sure, racing organizations that own tote companies, like Stronach with AmTote and Churchill with United could in theory fund with the subsidies they receive, but all of the companies would have to follow suit to see the benefit (same ITSP, ect). With it being fractured like it is and the margins they operate on, I don't see it happening unless something drastic is done. It is like anything else in the industry, would the investment provide incremental revenue justifying the expenditure OR stop handle degradation.

If they believed that an upgrade tote system would increase substantially increase handle, it likely would have been done already.
MonmouthParkJoe is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-15-2018, 11:54 AM   #28
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 41,749
Rep Power: 66 cj is a splendid one to beholdcj is a splendid one to beholdcj is a splendid one to beholdcj is a splendid one to beholdcj is a splendid one to beholdcj is a splendid one to beholdcj is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonmouthParkJoe View Post
If they believed that an upgrade tote system would increase substantially increase handle, it likely would have been done already.
It shouldn't matter if it increases handle. If the tote isn't secure, it needs to be upgraded. If it is relying on people to press a button, it should be upgraded. It is part of the business.

I'm sure plenty of businesses could be run cheaper and save money if they didn't care about securing our money and our information.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-15-2018, 12:21 PM   #29
PaceAdvantage
PA Steward
 
PaceAdvantage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 58,114
Rep Power: 89 PaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud ofPaceAdvantage has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj View Post
I'm sure plenty of businesses could be run cheaper and save money if they didn't care about securing our money and our information.
The threat of lawsuits and federal law / fines are what motivates businesses to invest in securing money and information.

There isn't too much of that kind of threat looming over racing. If there were, you might see changes.

Meh...if they screw up, just refund the pool once in a blue moon...
__________________
@paceadvantage | Support the site and become a today!
PaceAdvantage is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-15-2018, 12:34 PM   #30
metro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 121
Rep Power: 2 metro is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorrex View Post
They really don't have the ability to track every wager, not in any quick way at least and not without cooperation of lots of 3rd parties.

After news of a big Pick-6 being hit you often hear the PR dept. from the host track saying the ticket was either purchased on track or give the specific simulcast venue or ADW provider in which the ticket was originated. Sure that takes some digging but they can get to it. That is 3rd parties cooperating.

I don't think anyone is calling for every wager to be scrutinized, just the ones that create headlines, like these recent NYRA examples or ones like the Firenze Fire price drop during the Dwyer Statkes back in July. IF they wanted to NYRA could make public every wager that was pass posted on the "Cross Country" Pick 4, or the ones that helped create that big, late, price drop on FF.

Sure, it takes some work to get to the pertinent data but it's not near the cumbersome process you seem to entail, especially considering you are looking only at a specific time frame, usually only no more than the last couple of minutes of the wagering process. Again, NYRA, or any wagering venue, could be far more transparent, but they won't. There is simply nothing good that will come out of it from their standpoint.
metro is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
» Current Polls
Reason for drop off...
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2018 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved -- Best Viewed in a modern browser @ 1280x720 Resolution Or Higher
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.