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05-15-2017, 06:07 PM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Thanks, good info. Surprised the trainers didn't elect for #1 seeing how they had to know it is a distinct possibility and still want the horse.
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I'm assuming because you essentially agree to buy him post-race not matter what.
So look at it logically.,The horse clearly has something wrong with him. You drop that way you're taking him dead or alive which seems a little dicey.
Basically you have to want him enough to wave all protection.
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05-15-2017, 06:18 PM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
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Many of these horses just need time off to heal up but that can be very expensive.
One day I spoke with Bruce Headley who is one of the last of the Trainers who did it all from breaking horses when he was younger to become a Breeders' Cup winning Trainer. Anyway, while I was speaking to him he named off about 15 injuries/physical problems and how much time off (generally speaking)it would take to get them right. They use lasix but that's about it and their Vet Bills are super low compared to other top trainers. I always pull for them to win.
I always wondered about a Trainer taking advantage of Del Mar's ship and win with claiming horses that could take advantage of the 6 month layoff and not entered to be claimed layoff rule. If it was feasible I'd think someone would have done it already but maybe they have and I didn't notice.
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05-15-2017, 06:26 PM
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#33
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman
Not back then..Bobby King is the horseman I alluded to...and even then he would pull this off with expired coggins slips on horses already stabled here..his way of working the system was just a bit more complex than that, but I'm sure you get the gist, sir
from an official's side of the counter, i've observed ways of beating the system that would blow your mind...........and, just for fun, as a mental exercise, i've devised a few of my own...but , sadly, a book entitled "Running Ringers for Dummies," would probably be frowned upon...
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It could be an interesting book though!
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05-15-2017, 06:32 PM
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#34
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding No!
From a search of the rule book on the CHRB website, there are indeed safeguards against a mythical "unclaimable" horse.
1) a claimant can elect "to claim the horse regardless of whether the racing or official veterinarian determines the horse will be placed on the Veterinarian's List as unsound or lame." This has to be done prior to the race.
2) a horse that is placed on the Veterinarian's List multiple times is ineligible to be removed from the list (and thus ineligible to start) for increasing lengths of time. This is true of both horses that bleed and those that are unsound. In the case of bleeders there is the possibility of a lifetime ban.
Coincidentally, the horse in question has been a voided claim for different reasons. In February, according to the equibase chart, the horse bled out the nostrils and was vanned off. But the CHRB Vet List has him currently listed as unsound. Both unsoundness and bleeding are grounds for voiding a claim.
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I was fairly sure that claims can be voided if the horse was injured during the running of the race, though the claimant could still claim the horse if they choose to.
I suppose they could've changed it.
Number 1 is tough to figure out. So you only get to void the claim if the horse is put down? Is the former trainer overruled by the track vet given they'd not give permission to euthanize if it voids the claim? They'll hand over a severely injured and suffering horse?
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05-15-2017, 07:10 PM
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
Many of these horses just need time off to heal up but that can be very expensive.
One day I spoke with Bruce Headley who is one of the last of the Trainers who did it all from breaking horses when he was younger to become a Breeders' Cup winning Trainer. Anyway, while I was speaking to him he named off about 15 injuries/physical problems and how much time off (generally speaking)it would take to get them right. They use lasix but that's about it and their Vet Bills are super low compared to other top trainers. I always pull for them to win.
I always wondered about a Trainer taking advantage of Del Mar's ship and win with claiming horses that could take advantage of the 6 month layoff and not entered to be claimed layoff rule. If it was feasible I'd think someone would have done it already but maybe they have and I didn't notice.
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I always loved Headley as a bettor because he is completely honest with his works. If a Headley horse is coming off a layoff or a first time starter, and you see a tab full of blazing fast workouts, the horse is ready. If you don't, the horse needs a race.
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05-15-2017, 07:19 PM
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#36
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In Front
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hollywood Florida
Posts: 2,735
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I think its a great rule,Lets face it,If your horse is that bad and you want to lose him,Please find him a home!!..This is great for the guy claiming the horse when a lot of times,He is really claiming with scared money,Glad to finally see these guys who love to dope up their poor cripples for one more race and then watch someone else claim them and laugh. Stopped cold! I am glad that a small guy will at least have a chance for a sound horse,Even if your horse isnt fast but consistently running a good race and coming home sound makes for the next start more exciting.Yes everybody wants to win but I always credited my horses running to them.I know its hard to believe,But a horse knows when he is liked and will always perform for you.Also,A small claiming stable that claims a bad horse and get nothing back(,Per old rule) could really wipe them out.Trust me,Owners don't get to take a lot of money out of the office,Lots are putting what they make right back in to pay bills
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05-15-2017, 08:08 PM
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
I always loved Headley as a bettor because he is completely honest with his works. If a Headley horse is coming off a layoff or a first time starter, and you see a tab full of blazing fast workouts, the horse is ready. If you don't, the horse needs a race.
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Been longer and slower works this year and it's been working well. IMO Santa Anita is a real screwed up surface. If you watch two turn races they all try to go wide away from the kickback.
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05-16-2017, 10:54 AM
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing
I think its a great rule,Lets face it,If your horse is that bad and you want to lose him,Please find him a home!!..This is great for the guy claiming the horse when a lot of times,He is really claiming with scared money,Glad to finally see these guys who love to dope up their poor cripples for one more race and then watch someone else claim them and laugh. Stopped cold! I am glad that a small guy will at least have a chance for a sound horse,Even if your horse isnt fast but consistently running a good race and coming home sound makes for the next start more exciting.Yes everybody wants to win but I always credited my horses running to them.I know its hard to believe,But a horse knows when he is liked and will always perform for you.Also,A small claiming stable that claims a bad horse and get nothing back(,Per old rule) could really wipe them out.Trust me,Owners don't get to take a lot of money out of the office,Lots are putting what they make right back in to pay bills
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Imagine if Lava Man pulled up lame when they reached in and grabbed him for 50k, the claim would have been voided! Last month at GP there were 3 in for a 4-5 shot running nw2l for $6250 the horse broke down and all three of those droppers breathed a sigh of relief.
On another note I hope you and the family are doing well.
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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05-16-2017, 05:17 PM
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#39
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In Front
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hollywood Florida
Posts: 2,735
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We are fine Brian,Took a couple of years off due to what happened to us but hopefully in the near future I will be back.Thank you for asking!
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05-17-2017, 12:52 PM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing
We are fine Brian,Took a couple of years off due to what happened to us but hopefully in the near future I will be back.Thank you for asking!
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I'm always a fan of yours you do the right thing 100% of the time, thank you and God Bless.
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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10-09-2018, 06:49 AM
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lakehurst, NJ
Posts: 1,035
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The fact that racing jurisdictions need to come up with "creative" ways like this to bolster field sizes is the most melancholy story of our time.
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