Rapid Redux

[Tom]

I'm pretty sure he said in his opinion at some point early on in this loooooooong thread.

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

There is?

Then NAME it...so we "stupid horseplayers" can get better informed.

Go ahead and EXPOSE them...for the cheats that they are!

Andymays said that he had "inside information" about the NYRA fiasco...and we all called him up on it.

You say the same about the Rapid Redux win streak...and you should get a "pass"?...

I've said many times in the past what I feel is happening. I've never been shy about it. I can't believe you haven't seen it. It is almost like you are just trying to make me look like an ass.

I think horses are being entered and scratched for money and in exchange for training horses in the Cole stable. I suspected shady things were happening and made a few calls. I'm still saying the same thing, so take it however you want.

For somebody that doesn't care about this issue, you sure seem hell bent on defending cheaters. Do you know ANYTHING about Scooter Davis? Anything about his history in the game? If not, study up and get back to me when you do. If you do, then there isn't much more to discuss.

[OntheRail]

Originally Posted by cj

Would you be ok with people being paid to enter and later scratch? I'm not, nor would I ever be.

You know if you have the "PROOF" that something inappropriate happened... other then Cole sent some horse to a new trainer. Post IT... not just you... any of you that claim to be in the know.. All this LOOKS shat is just that.

Lets look at it this way Cole has some more coin in his pocket from Rapids wins he purchased a few more horses and past them off to another. Could it be that Wells is being offered MORE horses from other Owners you know trying to expand HIS business? As for all the scratches running 3-5th would hardly pay the days bill so why not wait a day or week to try and fatten your wallet when Rapid is not in the gate.
No much better banter to knock them.

The Horse and Connection are getting a Special Eclipse and the 2011 Vox Populi Award Goes to Rapid Redux as well

The goal of Thoroughbred horse racing is to win races,” said Mrs. Chenery in a statement. “In each race, no matter what amount of money the winner receives, what the distance of the race or the surface it is run on, one horse wins. And that's what we are all trying to do with our stable - win races so that feed bills can be paid and the costs of keeping the endeavor afloat can continue.

"Thousands of races are staged in America every year for every level of competition and thousands of horses win them, but rarely the same horse," she continued. "So for one horse to beat his field 19 times in one year is flat out phenomenal. For that we honor Rapid Redux today.

"We also honor his people who put him in a position to win each time, a rare and valuable skill. Rapid Redux and his team are a rare blend of ability and prudence. They never ran him over his head and he never failed to pull it off. Well done to all!”

Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...#ixzz1ihDRrgcQ

Like I said before He's a Cool Horse a unique breed that has accomplished a rare feat and wish him nothing but the best... he has earned it and to his connection congratulations.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

This seems like a silly argument to me. Obviously I think rules were broken...I'm sure of it actually. Are you saying if there weren't laws in place for theft we should all go around stealing each other's stuff?

I'm saying the same thing every time.

1. I don't know what the rules are

2. I don't know what happened

3. Racing secretaries often write soft prep races for star horses and fill races with implicit promises. IMO that's not much different than what seems to be happening here.

4. If there are no rules against something, then some people are going to look for legal but suspect advantages. So it's up to the track to create rules to prevent it.

5. If there are already rules against something, then it up to the tracks to enforce them

6. If I felt strongly that this was a bad situation, I would be mildly upset at the behavior of the connections, but totally pissed off at the tracks for allowing it and not creating and enforcing rules to prevent it.

I think we agree that it's a bad idea to allow connections to work out arrangements for scratching horses. IMO that will screw up the quality of the product. So the tracks have to prevent that. I just also understand why they may be letting it slide in this case. It's because the horse is an attraction and they feel it's good for business if he runs at the track and keeps winning the same way they think writing an easy prep for a stakes horse is good business and will help draw other horses from those connections back to the track.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by cj

I've said many times in the past what I feel is happening. I've never been shy about it. I can't believe you haven't seen it. It is almost like you are just trying to make me look like an ass.

I think horses are being entered and scratched for money and in exchange for training horses in the Cole stable. I suspected shady things were happening and made a few calls. I'm still saying the same thing, so take it however you want.

For somebody that doesn't care about this issue, you sure seem hell bent on defending cheaters. Do you know ANYTHING about Scooter Davis? Anything about his history in the game? If not, study up and get back to me when you do. If you do, then there isn't much more to discuss.

I'm not trying to make you look like an ass...nor have I ever.

The reason I haven't seen your comments in this thread is because I have had no interest in this matter whatsoever.

I only commented yesterday because I wanted to joke around with Dahoss...and I even told him so by PM.

But I wasn't prepared for your comment today about my post...and how it perpetuates the "stupid horseplayer" stereotype...

And I must say...you sure figured me out...

I sure go out of my way to defend cheaters...

In any case...I'll go ahead and get better informed about Scooter Davis, and his history in the game...so I can earn the right to converse with you on this subject again.

[cj]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I'm saying the same thing every time.

1. I don't know what the rules are

2. I don't know what happened

3. Racing secretaries often write soft prep races for star horses and fill races with implicit promises. IMO that's not much different than what seems to be happening here.

4. If there are no rules against something, then some people are going to look for legal but suspect advantages. So it's up to the track to create rules to prevent it.

5. If there are already rules against something, then it up to the tracks to enforce them

6. If I felt strongly that this was a bad situation, I would be mildly upset at the behavior of the connections, but totally pissed off at the tracks for allowing it and not creating and enforcing rules to prevent it.

I think we agree that it's a bad idea to allow connections to work out arrangements for scratching horses. IMO that will screw up the quality of the product. So the tracks have to prevent that. I just also understand why they may be letting it slide in this case. It's because the horse is an attraction and they feel it's good for business if he keeps winning the same way they think writing an easy prep for a stakes horse is easy good business and will help draw others horses from those connections back to the track.

So if your house is robbed of everything, you are mildly upset with the burglar but furious with the police for not catching them?

I also understand why it is allowed to happen. No offense, but this isn't some great revelation. However, it is this sad thinking that hastens the decline of the game. It is just another phony diversion from all the things that are really wrong with the game, and it is wrapped in the "great story" theme that so often does nothing for the sport.

I've never been one of the sheeple just following along, never will be. Those that want to buy into this sham can, but it won't stop me from taking the other side. They don't have to read what I write.

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I'm not trying to make you look like an ass...nor have I ever.

The reason I haven't seen your comments in this thread is because I have had no interest in this matter whatsoever.

I only commented yesterday because I wanted to joke around with Dahoss...and I even told him so by PM.

But I wasn't prepared for your comment today about my post...and how it perpetuates the "stupid horseplayer" stereotype...

And I must say...you sure figured me out...

I sure go out of my way to defend cheaters...

In any case...I'll go ahead and get better informed about Scooter Davis, and his history in the game...so I can earn the right to converse with you on this subject again.

I made the mistake of thinking you had read it all, and that was my mistake. I've made comments mid-thread before without reading it all.
My comment wasn't personal towards you. It isn't always easy to get my point across in print.

My point is this...people defending these connections only make it easier for them others to do the same in the future. It is a shame these connections, with a long history of doing bad things, happened to claim this incredibly game and rugged horse. And now because they did, they are being paraded in front in front of the sport as a positive story that we should all get behind.

Personally, these are the last kind of people I want to promote no matter the reason. Remember Michael Gill winning an Eclipse? Why do I have a feeling of deja vu?

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I think you have been very clear. I understand exactly what you have been saying.

I simply don't understand how a rational person can feel the way you feel about some alleged shady deals and not feel exactly the same way (actually worse) about the tracks doing nothing about it. It's the track's responsibility to make sure the game is run ethically. If you do feel the same way, then why not simply say so instead of deflecting it back to just the connections.

It made so little sense, I questioned your motivation (incorrectly).

We obviously disagree on this, but I don't think racing secretaries calling up connections and asking them to run their overmatched horses in prep races written for specific horses so they will fill in return for assumed other favors is an apples to oranges comparison just because it happens all the time and is generally accepted. Both represent efforts to find weak spots for specific horses in return for some form of compensation at the expense of others. It's more of a granny apple to delicious apple comparison.

I'm for holding people accountable for their own actions. If someone does something wrong, I hold them responsible for their actions.

I'm not sure why that makes so little sense.

You would prefer to hold the tracks responsible (assuming they even know). I 'm not sure why you are so quick to give wrong behavior a pass.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by OntheRail

The Horse and Connection are getting a Special Eclipse and the 2011 Vox Populi Award Goes to Rapid Redux as well

So they are being rewarded for this. Awesome!

I take back everything I said. Does he have a cool facebook page?

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

So they are being rewarded for this. Awesome!

I take back everything I said. Does he have a cool facebook page?

Apparently.

[Tom]

What catagory?
Boat Race of the Year?

[proximity]

Originally Posted by cj

I will add that I think *most* of the blame falls with the connections for one reason...check out Cole and his stable of reformed trainers past history. At some point I'm guessing the sport will regret promoting this guy almost as much as they do the horse slaughterer Michael Gill.

great post cj.

it has been said in the drf that mr cole is a great handicapper, but i bet that classhandicapper would easily pick more winners if you locked them both in a room and had a month long contest on non mid-atlantic tracks. but good luck to classhandicapper in his day to day handicapping trying to match this guy's 35-40% annual win percentages as an OWNER. a GREAT handicapper can burn the midnight oil, have the freedom to pick ANY OTHER HORSE IN THE RACE, and struggle to match the percentage that mr cole routinely reaches by simply entering horses in races days in advance against unknown (?) competition.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

I'm for holding people accountable for their own actions. If someone does something wrong, I hold them responsible for their actions.

I'm not sure why that makes so little sense.

You would prefer to hold the tracks responsible (assuming they even know). I 'm not sure why you are so quick to give wrong behavior a pass.

I'm not giving them a pass. I've repeatedly criticized their actions and called them suspect, shady etc...

I am arguing that you seem to be giving those that are ultimately responsible a pass.

[cj]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I'm not giving them a pass.

I am arguing that you are giving those that are ultimately responsible a pass.

The one ultimately responsible is the one that does something, not the entity that is supposed to monitor him.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

So if your house is robbed of everything, you are mildly upset with the burglar but furious with the police for not catching them?

If you read all my posts I've repeatedly criticized any deal making and said it was shady etc... I don't it's fair to move the chain towards something I would feel differently about to represent what I feel about this.

I think there's a huge difference between robbing someone's house and asking someone to scratch a horse in return for a favor that in no way impacts the integrity of the race for bettors or other participants who are also free to scratch.