More inane doings at Gulfstream

[BIG49010]

On Saturday, I thought the Beyer for the 8th of 74 was a little low, any guess what it should be?

[dirty moose]

They also do not report having 2 turf tracks......

[cj]

Today's run up distances were pretty crazy again:

7	D		30
 8	T48		200
 5	T108		90
 6	D		15
 8	T48		125
 8	D		5
 6.5	D		25
 6.5	D		30
 8.5	T108		35
 8	T48		60

I'm going to have to watch replays of races 6 and 7, hard to believe they moved the gate when the next race was the exact same distance. The dirt wasn't too bad, though a little hard to figure out why the 6f race, with the most room, had the shortest run up. The 5 foot run up at one mile won't change because there is no more room.

The big one today was the one mile turf races, all on the "rail 48" turf course. Three of them run, run ups of 200, 125, and 60. Words can't describe how stupid that is.

[Hosshead]

GP purposely does this to screw up the times (ie. handicapping) to create long prices/ carryovers in future races.
Some tracks do this with track maintance during the day, using water/ deep harrowing etc. during the same card.

Gp does this "manipulation" with run up distances.
The run up could be changed slightly. (away from the gate ground)
No reason for such extreme changes in run up distance unless they want to change the times and thus handicapping for future races.
Would you expect anything other than this from Stronach ?

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Hosshead

GP purposely does this to screw up the times (ie. handicapping) to create long prices/ carryovers in future races.
Some tracks do this with track maintance during the day, using water/ deep harrowing etc. during the same card.

Gp does this "manipulation" with run up distances.
The run up could be changed slightly. (away from the gate ground)
No reason for such extreme changes in run up distance unless they want to change the times and thus handicapping for future races.
Would you expect anything other than this from Stronach ?

There was some "odd" bias today and i saw this the other day but found it odd...in Friday's 8th, Harry's Holiday was an even money shot (that i thought was overbet) and that horse looked to be going nowhere on the far turn, struggling along.....than, was angled out and went from "Dead in the water" to not only powering away, but the rest of the horses just seemed to disappear. You dont normally see a horse who is 'going up and down' looking like a loser, to an easy winner 2 strides later.

[Ocala Mike]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

If they use the same run-up distance for each mile race, the gate would be positioned in the same exact spot for three races and the turf in that area would be ripped up

Too logical, Saratoga_Mike, and this explanation does nothing for the conspiracy theorists running rampant in this thread.

[Tom]

So they need to move it 140 feet?
Sorry, that makes no sense.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

There was some "odd" bias today and i saw this the other day but found it odd...in Friday's 8th, Harry's Holiday was an even money shot (that i thought was overbet) and that horse looked to be going nowhere on the far turn, struggling along.....than, was angled out and went from "Dead in the water" to not only powering away, but the rest of the horses just seemed to disappear. You dont normally see a horse who is 'going up and down' looking like a loser, to an easy winner 2 strides later.

I didn't watch the races from GP yesterday, but I occasionally see biases in "sections" of the track.

Even experienced handicappers tend to think in very black and white terms when it comes to biases. They think "good rail" or "bad rail". But sometimes right on the rail is golden/dead, sometimes the inside 2 paths are golden/dead etc... Years ago I saw days at Belmont where the inside 3-4 paths were bad. Sometimes the inside is golden/bad just on the turn or just in the stretch.

It's immensely complicated. Compounding the difficulty is that now they often card 5-6 turf races and a couple of maiden races where form is highly volatile. So you have very few dirt races to make a judgement.

My notes are full of days with notes like "possible favorable rail", "inside 2 paths dominated, but small sample", "no one could rally outside on turn, but inside out trip into stretch was great".

A lot of the time the samples are so small even after I get to see horses run back I am forced to leave "possible" in the notes.

[classhandicapper]

It's easily possible that management either does not understand the issue and how difficult it makes it for figure makers or doesn't consider it significant enough to communicate down to the crew to try to be consistent. Someone with a "voice" should communicate it to management.

[magwell]

Originally Posted by cj

Today's run up distances were pretty crazy again:

7	D		30
  8	T48		200
  5	T108		90
  6	D		15
  8	T48		125
  8	D		5
  6.5	D		25
  6.5	D		30
  8.5	T108		35
  8	T48		60

I'm going to have to watch replays of races 6 and 7, hard to believe they moved the gate when the next race was the exact same distance. The dirt wasn't too bad, though a little hard to figure out why the 6f race, with the most room, had the shortest run up. The 5 foot run up at one mile won't change because there is no more room.

The big one today was the one mile turf races, all on the "rail 48" turf course. Three of them run, run ups of 200, 125, and 60. Words can't describe how stupid that is.

That's amazing, regarding the mile turf , does the beyer #'s factor that in ?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

It's easily possible that management either does not understand the issue and how difficult it makes it for figure makers or doesn't consider it significant enough to communicate down to the crew to try to be consistent. Someone with a "voice" should communicate it to management.

Remembering the Andy Beyer case about their timing a while back, I think we can rule out stupidity, unless those who run GP REALLY very stupid people. I think not giving a crap about their customers is the most likely case. Not that they are alone in that.

(Although being REALLY stupid is certainly still on the table)

[Ocala Mike]

The really stupid people are those who are trying to make numbers on grass races. It's all about trips, jockeys, trainers, and breeding.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Ocala Mike

The really stupid people are those who are trying to make numbers on grass races. It's all about trips, jockeys, trainers, and breeding.

So I'm stupid? That is nice to know. Thanks.

[cj]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

It's easily possible that management either does not understand the issue and how difficult it makes it for figure makers or doesn't consider it significant enough to communicate down to the crew to try to be consistent. Someone with a "voice" should communicate it to management.

Its being worked on.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Ocala Mike

Too logical, Saratoga_Mike, and this explanation does nothing for the conspiracy theorists running rampant in this thread.

I never said it was a conspiracy, just that it makes no sense and isn't very fair to handicappers. I would be here complaining if the gate were moved 10 feet, or 20 feet even, to protect the ground. But moving it from 35 feet to 250, ON THE SAME DAY? Come on...