Even Grooms Are Victimized By NYRA Weasels

[VetScratch]

You all know that my primary allegiance is to horsemen.

At the same time, as horseplayers, we have all agreed that better purses mean better racing.

What do you find appealing in a settlement that is guaranteed to withhold $2-million from purses.

What will happen if Pataki's proposal to EXCLUDE purses from the first two years of VLT revenues is passed in the upcoming budget enactments? In each of the previous two legislated budget packages, the legislature has fiddled with the VLT subsidies.

Good racing will just be a memory if VLTs add no money to purses for two years while everyone pays off NYRA's fines and debts. By the time the $20-million is restored to the horsemen's accounts, most of the check requests will be coming from another racing circuit!

Given all the issues, only closet slot players should find no reason to be apprehensive about the future.

[VetScratch]

Do the math. NYRA has been operating at a substantial loss, and has been unable to sustain the current purse structure on a cash basis (otherwise, there would not be a $20-million deficit in the horsemen's accounts). If VLT purse funding is prohibited for two years, matters will just get worse instead of better. At some point, purses would have to drop because handle is not keeping up with the current purse structure on a cash basis.

[andicap]

Here's a question:

If a trainer can be suspended for a drug positive when he knew nothing about the incident (a policy I support -- someone has to be accountable), how come Kenny Noe and Terry Meyocks get
off -- indeed Meyocks gets a golden parachute -- when they were in charge when these scandals happened?

So you need accountability for trainers and their barns, but not
for the people who are in charge? That sounds rather hypocritical.

Also, I finally see where VS is going. By reducing purses to pay for the fine, the horsemen get less money overall. So it's not that the grooms by themselves get screwed, but EVERYONE does and it's just worse for those at the bottom of the pecking order.

But hey, isn't what always happens? The poor ALWAYS get screwed by the government.

[Tom]

...it's just for the little guys.

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey Vet, did I not make myself clear in my last post about grooms? I said EVERYONE who brings it up (including Mr Bomze) is being disingenuous. If you guys cared about grooms so damn much, YOU WOULD PAY THEM MORE TO BEGIN WITH!!!

They are a lot more vital to a horse's success then most would care to admit, yet they are paid little when compared to the trainer, jockey, vets, etc.....

So again, playing the groom card is silly. You're nit picking here....

The reason why the horsemen are going along with this is because they want the VLT project to start ASAP. They know when it gets going full steam, it will mean $$$$$$$$$$$ for everyone involved.....

And Vettie, lets hope that when the VLT project starts to pay off, you'll be at the front of the line making sure the GROOMS get their FAIR SHARE OF THE COMING PROFIT WINDFALL the owners will make due to increased purses (whether this takes 2 years or not is IMMATERIAL to those who see the FOREST for the trees)

LOL

[VetScratch]

PA,

Pataki's proposal is that there will be no purse subsidies for first two years of VLTs. So VLTs would not contribute to purses until 2007.

Meanwhile, NYRA is lobbying to change VLT legislation to make purse subsidies negotiable rather than based on a legislated percentage of VLT revenues.

By 2007, horsemen will have little negotiating leverage because NYRA will primarily be in the VLT business rather than horseracing.

The current pari-mutuel handle has not kept pace with expenses, and the deficit owed to horsemen has grown from $14-million to over $20-million. Isn't it obvious that what NYRA wants to do is pay back the pilfered horsemen's funds with the horsemen's share of VLT revenues planned under original legislation. If Pataki and NYRA succeed in changing the VLT distribution to take away what was scheduled to go to purses for two years, the result will be ludicrous... paying back the pilfered funds by pilfering the future... in effect, the horsemen will be robbed twice to get rid of the deficit.

Furthermore, during the next year, NYRA will continue to operate at a substantial loss. One way or another, folks outside NYRA will be stuck for the tab, as usual.

Where are these "$$$$$$$" in the "forest" that you talk about?

Why do you make such stupid posts? For some strange reason, you are definitely in bed with the suits... and that separates you from both intelligent horseplayers and horsemen.

The suits have always been the natural enemy of players and horses. In this case, you side with crooked suits. Why? Is there a day job in your family that tethers you to NYRA?

[VetScratch]

PA,

And Vettie, lets hope that when the VLT project starts to pay off, you'll be at the front of the line making sure the GROOMS get their FAIR SHARE OF THE COMING PROFIT WINDFALL the owners will make due to increased purses (whether this takes 2 years or not is IMMATERIAL to those who see the FOREST for the trees)

Purses do not come close to covering the backside expenses. Owners make up the difference out of their pockets, which is why well over 90% of owners lose money each year.

Owners already put far more dollars into racing than racetracks contribute via purses.

[stgeorge]

Originally posted by VetScratch
The suits have always been the natural enemy of players and horses. In this case, you side with crooked suits.

Hey, the 60's just called, they want their indignant cliche back! (and use of "Da Man!" is also unacceptable).

Originally posted by VetScratch
What will happen if Pataki's proposal to EXCLUDE purses from the first two years of VLT revenues is passed in the upcoming budget enactments? In each of the previous two legislated budget packages, the legislature has fiddled with the VLT subsidies.

Do you have a source for this? You've said it in a number of posts but, while the proposal to exclude horsemen was put on the table early this year, Richard Bomze responded at the time saying, "It can’t stay like this." ...And it didn't.

A recent Thoroughbred Times article reads, "Revenue splits, however, were tweaked during the spring legislative session to give 29% to the racing industry, 61% to fund state education initiatives, and 10% to the state Lottery. Of the 29% earmarked for the racing industry, the tracks will get as much as 20% for the first three years, with horsemen and breeders taking smaller shares of the remaining 9%."

As far as the recent action by the US Attorney, OK, you don't like the way things shook out, how about giving an alternative? Do you know what their investigation uncovered that would allow you to say someone else should have been indicted? Would you scrap NYRA? Rewrite the penalties in some way? I've read critical comments on the US Attorney's action, but I have yet to read any alternative offered.

[VetScratch]

StGeorge,

Suits

You should be able to find recent references to the "suits" by Internet Wagering Sites... when the wagering site columnists and emails have described a special discount or promotion, they often pretend that users are getting a break only because the greedy "suits" are away on vacation, etc.

I have seen it elsewhere also, but it is admittedly less common than other slang approbations like cheat, crook, pirate, etc.

It is a legal anomaly that the $3-million fine will not penalize any NYRA employees or consultants... only the innocent will pay for the "institutionalized corruption" that NYRA cannot deny.

In my view, NYRA at the top, among trustees and senior management, is devoid of noblesse oblige. Where true gentlemen congregate, such as behind the hedges at Remingham during Henley week, there would be no shortage of volunteers to assume the burden of the fines, which amount to a pittance when honor has been stained by underlings. For a mere $3-million, the NYRA elite appear inclined to skulk like weasels rather than fly like eagles.

VLT Subsidies

I know my precedence of events was based on reseach, but I will search for my references again and re-post whether or not I was right or wrong. I expect to find that Pataki's proposal was still being floated as late as September 2003... after the budget enactments that I think you are referencing. If not, a retraction from me can be expected.

BTW, where did you find that Pataki's proposal has been withdrawn?

I actually hope that Pataki's proposal has been squashed. That would leave "negotiated subsidies" as the most serious issue that threatens racing after the flow of VLT revenues commences.

BTW, IMHO, your post was excellent compared to many.

[VetScratch]

Give NYRA's behavior some thought.

What do you think about the folks at the top of NYRA?

For example, there has occasionally been no love lost in exchanges between Suff and myself; however, I would fully expect that Suff would dig deep if he were a NYRA trustee, in order to take the burden of fines off the shoulders of innocent working stiffs.

Is there much controversy about NYRA's shallow corporate culture?

=====
Suff, I had to blink... but I still hit <Submit Reply>!

[VetScratch]

A Choice Among Fallen Angels?

Vigorous advocates of NYRA seem to be proposing that we exalt a fallen angel.

Next month, or next year, when conglomerate management in the Magna or Churchill groups paves over a racetrack to provide more parking for slot players, we will be offered ample opportunity to examine the trail of false promises and deceit that underpins the common agenda to use racing as a portal to the casino business.

IMHO, the last great hands-on track owner was Stormy Bidwell. Many Midwest horsemen know that Stormy overpaid purses in several meets... however, when this happened he did not rob the horsemen's accounts... Stromy knew how to bite the bullet. When the annual full-card of Illinois-bred stakes was conceived, it was supposed to rotate between the three Chicago tracks... however, when AP and HAW reneged, Stormy stepped to the plate year after year to present the day of Illinois stakes at SPT.

I imagine that disgust was part of the Bidwell family decision to bow out of the ranks of racetrack operators. Who would want to be judged by the company you have to keep today?

[PaceAdvantage]

yes Vet, it's all a grand conspiracy to make NYRA look good on this board, because I am in bed with the suits....

Nobody really gives a rats ass one way or the other how NYRA looks on this board. If I were in bed with the suits, all your posts would be erased, as the "SUITS" would be coming down hard on me like a ton of bricks...you know how the "SUITS" don't like it when bad things are said about them on a public board....

And as for my "stupid" posts, I apologize for providing an opinion opposite of yours....I guess we should just turn this whole place over to the mighty "Vet from Out West", as she is the only one here who grasps "the way, the truth, and the light" on ALL SUBJECTS great and small....

Arrogance SUITS you well....

[alysheba88]

NYRA has been great for the horse player. Best product in the country and also the lowest take out. They are doing a real good job now. Most of this stuff is the fault of the previous trustees. Guys running it now are good people and again have been great to the horse player.

[PaceAdvantage]

I agree with alysheba 100% (surprise VET!)

However, I fear with all this crap that has been NEEDLESSLY stirred up (this ALL could have been dealt with in a much more low-key manner, with the SAME RESULTS), that NYRA will be forced somehow to INCREASE the takeout in order to "SHOW" the powers that be that they are dutifully keeping an eye on the bottom line....

Show of hands....who out there would agree with me when I state that the same exact results could have been obtained from NYRA (the firing and prosecution of a bunch of crooked employees, and the payment of a fine) without all this political fanfare and without the threat of a NYRA indictment......I know my hand is raised high.....

Without all the political grandstanding, the VLT project might have been ready to open for business in March or April, as originally planned, and the purses would be well on their way to being the highest in the nation....good for the owners (and the GROOMS we hope)

Now we're stuck in a quagmire that doesn't seem to be a benefit to ANYONE at the moment.....

The owners aren't getting any more purse money cause the VLTs are still on hold....

The NYRA isn't going to be getting out of their financial woes anytime soon because now they have a $3M fine to pay on top of everything else that has gone on....

The bettors are probably going to be SCREWED again because the takeout is probably going to increase in some manner to pay for all this crap.....


But then again, this is just another "Stupid post" by me, right Vet?

[alysheba88]

Ill go even a step further Pace and say that much of this took place ONLY because there are those who want to see takeout increased, and increased dramatically.

Schwartz stepped "out of line" by looking out for horseplayers. That itself required retribution.

Ill take an NYRA run product over anything Stronach gets his hands on every day of the week.

I am no shill for the NYRA either. I hated them for years, especially under the old boy network. But the past few years, from increasing the prestige of Belmont, to takeout reduction, to handicapping contests, to a much better product they have been the horseplayers friend, not enemy.