Stardom Bound - Ashland Stakes

[magwell]

Originally Posted by joanied

I just watched the video in the thread...mid strtch she did kind of lug in...maybe wanting to get away from the right front?? Mike was beating her left handed...hhhhmmmmm.

Lets hope we are wrong, mike wouldnt say on national tv if she was not 100 % anyway.

[joanied]

Originally Posted by magwell

Lets hope we are wrong, mike wouldnt say on national tv if she was not 100 % anyway.

Yes, let's hope...and you are right...he wouldn't say anything. Was he interviewed after the race?

[asH]

change jocks and she's in the winner circle again...Horses know 'their' pace not what position they should be in, (thats human)...if anyone really understands this game they would know Mike does not know pace. Juxtapose that race against Pioneer of the Nile in the Santa Anita Derby, the horse knew it was to slow and GO-Go didnt interfere. Mike is a passenger and always will be; just goes to show the quality of riders these days (I stand pat on that belief)..few and FAAAAR between.

[Marshall Bennett]

Originally Posted by asH

change jocks and she's in the winner circle again...Horses know 'their' pace not what position they should be in, (thats human)...if anyone really understands this game they would know Mike does not know pace. Juxtapose that race against Pioneer of the Nile in the Santa Anita Derby, the horse knew it was to slow and GO-Go didnt interfere. Mike is a passenger and always will be; just goes to show the quality of riders these days (I stand pat on that belief)..few and FAAAAR between.

I think you may be right Ash . Someone also mentioned in another thread that Mike was afraid to challenge towards the middle or rail perhaps due to a prior injury . He does seem to go wide a lot which may support this analysis . In any event , he's not the rider he was many years ago .

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by asH

change jocks and she's in the winner circle again...Horses know 'their' pace not what position they should be in, (thats human)...if anyone really understands this game they would know Mike does not know pace. Juxtapose that race against Pioneer of the Nile in the Santa Anita Derby, the horse knew it was to slow and GO-Go didnt interfere. Mike is a passenger and always will be; just goes to show the quality of riders these days (I stand pat on that belief)..few and FAAAAR between.

I disagree with pretty much everything you said. It's Mike Smith's fault that the rest of the crop has caught up to Stardom Bound? Was it his fault last time when she won by a nose? I guess when she was winning all of those races he could ride though right? Is Smith in the upper tier of riders anymore....no. But the guy is a Hall of Famer for a reason.

If anyone really understands this game, they would know that most 2 year old champs have a hard time duplicating it as 3 year olds. The reason they are so dominant at 2 is they are more advanced than their competition. By this point in their careers the rest of the field has caught up. You can blame Smith all you want, but she was running 3rd yesterday regardless of who rode her.

[asH]

Mike never was...
As a horse moves up in stakes races, a jock cant afford to give any horse a chance to dictate their pace. He choked her down last race, it was her effort alone that allowed for a win, and you know what, perhaps she didnt want to go through that same agonizing scenario yesterday.
for those who dont understand what I'm talking about; go out and run at a moderate pace (on a fast track)for for a few minutes, then try to pass someone 5yards in front of you who has been running at the same pace; it will take your heart away, especially the second time

Most decent jocks can figure that one out.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

I disagree with pretty much everything you said. It's Mike Smith's fault that the rest of the crop has caught up to Stardom Bound? Was it his fault last time when she won by a nose? I guess when she was winning all of those races he could ride though right? Is Smith in the upper tier of riders anymore....no. But the guy is a Hall of Famer for a reason.

If anyone really understands this game, they would know that most 2 year old champs have a hard time duplicating it as 3 year olds. The reason they are so dominant at 2 is they are more advanced than their competition. By this point in their careers the rest of the field has caught up. You can blame Smith all you want, but she was running 3rd yesterday regardless of who rode her.

I agree with everything you said....well put all the way around

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by asH

Mike never was...
As a horse moves up in stakes races, a jock cant afford to give any horse a chance to dictate their pace. He choked her down last race, it was her effort alone that allowed for a win, and you know what, perhaps she didnt want to go through that same agonizing scenario yesterday.
for those who dont understand what I'm talking about; go out and run at a moderate pace (on a fast track)for for a few minutes, then try to pass someone 5yards in front of you who has been running at the same pace; it will take your heart away, especially the second time

Most decent jocks can figure that one out.

So in your opinion it's not possible the crop has caught up to her? Can we stop making Stardom Bound out to be more than she is? She's an okay filly. She looked visually, because all closers look good visually. However, take a look at what she was beating last year. Is there a good horse there?

Look at Dream Empress, she's been awful this year. Is it her jock's fault? No, she looked better last year because she was beating up on inferior. Just like Stardom Bound. I'm sure eventually Smith will get replaced. Then I can't wait for the excuse after she's beat with a new rider.

[asH]

well we never had a chance to see what she may be able to do because of the rider, and at this stage she's playing catch up..what jocks are supposed to do is to place horses in the best possible position to succeed, Mike obviously couldnt do that...sorry your emotions are involved or you may have learned something or two.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by asH

well we never had a chance to see what she may be able to do because of the rider, and at this stage she's playing catch up..what jocks are supposed to do is to place horses in the best possible position to succeed, Mike obviously couldnt do that...sorry your emotions are involved or you may have learned something or two.

My emotions are involved? That's an interesting spin to put on it. I guess you're trying to teach me how to properly whine about a 3/5 getting beat. Some lesson...

Let's put all of that aside. My opinion is that she was never that good to begin with. She looked good visually, as any horse making her kind of run does. But, she was beating up on weaker and as we have seen time and time again, I think her crop has caught up with her. The best horse she defeated last year was Dream Empress and as we've seen, the competition has definitely caught up with her. Stardom Bound was ahead of the game last year, but that is no more. Her nose win at Santa Anita was the first clue and her non threatening finish yesterday confirms it.

You think Mike Smith is to blame. What about my take do you disagree with?

[asH]

well we first have to come to consensus about her last win, did Mike place SB in position to check about 3 or 4 times?, did he not take SB through the parking lot around the turn into the stretch, did he not keep her 10 back in a no pace slow pace paced race? did she not give her heart down the stretch? thats where that nose comes from. That was the Mike Smith show, and he did it again yesterday.

and your comment about 2's to 3 year olds, it has happened a number of times with fillies, and quite a few times 2 year old eclipse also won handicap mare...so never say never

[Dahoss9698]

Name one good horse she beat last year.

[toetoe]

Over/under for future wins by Stardom Bound: 1/2 (one half). I'll take the under if I get even money.

Don't forget --- as losses pile up the connections will be inclined to notice sudden injuries, likely leading to retirement.

[asH]

you see!

thats not even the issue..firstly the dynamics of a 2year old campaign is very different than the 3year old campagne, so who they beat is less important than how they won. SB won as if she wanted to go long. BTW,thats where you get the idea that horses cant make the jump, and in most cases its true, but then there's that special one who can. As races become more competitive the closer to the front, relative to pace, one should be.

[joanied]

Originally Posted by toetoe

Over/under for future wins by Stardom Bound: 1/2 (one half). I'll take the under if I get even money.

Don't forget --- as losses pile up the connections will be inclined to notice sudden injuries, likely leading to retirement.

If they suddenly notice 'injuries' so they can retire her...they'd better hurry...another month and it'll be too late for her to keep her future 'date' with Big Brown for this breeding season...they sure don't want her to have a late foal, especially the first one out of her