Our Great Leader Is Not Leading Anybody Apparently

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

The one they were working on as late as November.

Jerusalem Post Article

Oh, yes...the one that is always a work in progress but like spinning wheels in deep mud never gets anywhere because the two main players don't trust one another. From the link you posted:

“Ultimately, both Netanyahu and Abbas just have this long, long history and they’ve played this game really well,” said Foundation for Defense of Democracies scholar Grant Rumley.

“They don’t trust each other and I don’t think they will ever get to the point where they will trust each other.”

Indulge me for a while and let me see if I can put this "peace process", as well as Trump's diplomatic move, into some biblically historical context. I'll keep this as brief as possible by just presenting a very big picture in a thumbnail sketch of Israel's relationship with the nations, i.e. Gentiles. (And we mustn't forget that all Israel's neighbors are included in this group, all are "Gentiles".) But first...Trump's diplomatic move.

There is a good news and bad news to this old but now newly implemented policy. The good news is that to the best of my knowledge of the bible, the move itself does not fulfill any prophecy per se. But the bad news is that I most certainly can see serious, worldwide ramifications to it in light of biblical prophecy, particularly those oracles of God that deal specifically with Israel's relationship with the nations during these end times. I believe Trump has unwittingly furthered God's agenda for Israel and indeed the entire world.

So...how did we get to this point in human history? Paul told the Gentiles at Lystra, who were engaged in idol worship, that "in past generations gone by, He (God) permitted all the nations (Gentiles) to go their own way." (Act 14:16). When did God do this and why? This occurred shortly after the Flood at the Tower of Babel when God judged the wickedness of men for their flagrant disobedience to disperse and fill the earth and for their idolatry. So, God confused their tongues and dispersed all men to all parts of the earth -- and in so doing established nations and their boundaries (cf. Genesis 11). At this time, in a very real sense, God abandoned the nations.
He left the nations to their own wicked devices. This is what Paul was telling the people at Lystra.

But thankfully for mankind, Genesis 12 follows chapter 11 and soon after this great universal diaspora, God called Abraham so that Abraham could father a new nation -- a nation separate from the Gentiles.

However, thanks again to God's infinite mercy and grace, he didn't leave the Gentiles in their abandoned state. In fact, he never intended to because he even told Abraham that He would make the Jewish patriarch "the father of many nations", i.e. their spiritual father. Up until the first advent of Christ, Israel had an exclusive covenant relationship with God. But the Jews, as a nation, rejected their Messiah so Jesus told the Jews that the "kingdom of heaven" (Christ personified) would be taken away from them and given to another "nation" who would bear fruit in keeping with the nature of the glorious kingdom (Mat 21:43). This "nation" is spiritual in nature, having no borders since the extent of Christ's Church is universal -- it's all over the world, as the Gospel of Christ spread immediately throughout Asia Minor and the Roman Empire in the first century.

Jesus also told the Jews of his day that Jerusalem would be trodden under foot by the Gentiles until the "times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" (Lk 21:24).
In essence the Jewish Age (a/k/a the Mosaic dispensation) began to become extinct after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and actually came to an end in 70 A.D. All humanity has been in these Times of the Gentiles for the last 2,000 years. And in a real sense, Jerusalem is still being trodden under foot, even after she became a nation in 1948; for the nations of the world have made the holy city one very hot and explosive political football. (Perhaps now some of you readers can see the tension between what was predicted by Jesus, now is and what Trump and others like him hope for Jerusalem.)

But of course, the Times of the Gentiles will come to an end. Nothing is forever. When Jesus returns He will establish his physical kingdom forever in a totally restored heaven and earth. But just before that time, Paul tells us that even though currently a "partial hardening of the heart" has happened to Israel until the fulness of Gentiles has come in" (Rom 11:25), God promises to Israel will be ultimately fulfilled; "for all Israel will be saved" (Rom 11:26). (Paul doesn't mean all Jews strictly by lineage only, but rather all Jews who have the faith of their father Abraham.) How is this going to come about? Well, this brings us full circle back to the political relationship Israel has with the nations.

There is no need for me to write very much about this, for all who are interested in pursuing this subject could start by reading the central OT passage dealing with it -- Zechariah 12-14. Suffice it to say that Israel will come to faith in their Messiah when their backs are up against the wall -- or perhaps against the Mediterranean. When Israel is faced with the wrath of the world, then they will call out to their Messiah to save them. Here is how the prophet's oracle about the nations and Israel begins:

Zech 12:1-9
1 The burden of the word of the Lord concerning Israel.

Thus declares the Lord who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him, 2 "Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah. 3 "And it will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it. 4 "In that day," declares the Lord, "I will strike every horse with bewilderment, and his rider with madness. But I will watch over the house of Judah, while I strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5 "Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, 'A strong support for us are the inhabitants of Jerusalem through the Lord of hosts, their God.' 6 "In that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot among pieces of wood and a flaming torch among sheaves, so they will consume on the right hand and on the left all the surrounding peoples, while the inhabitants of Jerusalem again dwell on their own sites in Jerusalem. 7 "The Lord also will save the tents of Judah first in order that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem may not be magnified above Judah. 8 "In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the one who is feeble among them in that day will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord before them. 9 "And it will come about in that day that I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
NASB

Of course, this end times theme is picked up in many other places in scripture, most notably in Revelations in the NT.

For those of you who have eyes to see and ears to hear -- for all who can discern the signs of the times -- you should give very careful heed to these things I just wrote; for as assuredly as I am here typing this, all these things will come upon this world. Repent, therefore, and believe the Gospel of Christ and be saved!

1 Tim 1:15
15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.
NASB

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Oh, yes...the one that is always a work in progress but like spinning wheels in deep mud never gets anywhere because the two main players don't trust one another. From the link you posted:

“Ultimately, both Netanyahu and Abbas just have this long, long history and they’ve played this game really well,” said Foundation for Defense of Democracies scholar Grant Rumley.

“They don’t trust each other and I don’t think they will ever get to the point where they will trust each other.”

Indulge me for a while and let me see if I can put this "peace process", as well as Trump's diplomatic move, into some biblically historical context.

Sorry but that's where I stopped.

Don't attack the messenger on this. The Trump Administration this past fall appeared to put some effort into the notion of a peace process. Personally I think it's a waste of time as long as Nentanyahu and Abbas are running the show there is no chance for peace. Both have to go first.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Not going through all the verbage, Mexico slaps a fee on most anything imported into the country, plain and simple. So what if they call it a tariff, VAT, Sales tax, import fee, etc,etc.

Everything in Mexico comes with a VAT whether it's made here, there, or anywhere. Its hardly competitive in nature.

Tariffs do not help the American worker:

“This may no doubt give encouragement to some particular class of workmen among ourselves, and by excluding some of their rivals, may enable them to raise their price in the home-market. Those workmen, however, who suffered by our neighbours’ prohibition will not be benefited by ours. On the contrary, they and almost all the other classes of our citizens will thereby be obliged to pay dearer than before for certain goods. Every such law, therefore, imposes a real tax upon the whole country, not in favour of that particular class of workmen who were injured by our neighbours’ prohibition, but of some other class.”

- Adam Smith

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Sorry but that's where I stopped.

Don't attack the messenger on this. The Trump Administration this past fall appeared to put some effort into the notion of a peace process. Personally I think it's a waste of time as long as Nentanyahu and Abbas are running the show there is no chance for peace. Both have to go first.

Regardless...there's no chance for lasting peace between the Gentiles and Israel. None. Nada. Zip. (And Slim is pushing up daisies.) Trump's actions, as good as his intentions are, will only fan the flame of hatred the Gentiles have for Israel. Trump, unwittingly painted, a larger target on Israel's back.

[lefty359]

To have peace both sides must want it. Palestine has never shown they want it...

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Sorry but that's where I stopped.

Don't attack the messenger on this. The Trump Administration this past fall appeared to put some effort into the notion of a peace process. Personally I think it's a waste of time as long as Nentanyahu and Abbas are running the show there is no chance for peace. Both have to go first.

Good time to tap the brakes.

If they ever did, no Palestinian now considers the U.S. an honest broker in the peace process after the embassy move. And the majority of Christians, at least by number (Catholics and big "O" Orthodox), are not biblical dispensationalists, and for whom the secular, political, nation-state of Israel does not fulfill a biblical mandate.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

Good time to tap the brakes.

If they ever did, no Palestinian now considers the U.S. an honest broker in the peace process after the embassy move. And the majority of Christians, at least by number (Catholics and big "O" Orthodox), are not biblical dispensationalists, and for whom the secular, political, nation-state of Israel does not fulfill a biblical mandate.

Au contraire, my friend! Israel will certainly fulfill scriptures' mandate; for God has already decreed it! He will "make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the nations". And he "will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured" (Zech 12:2,3). (How exceedingly appropriate that God through his prophet compares Jerusalem to a heavy stone, since Christ, the antitype to Israel, is also a Stone upon which either men will fall and will be broken to pieces, or the Stone will fall on them and scatter them like dust (Mat 21:44). How appropriate that God's Holy City has already become a great stone over which the nations of this world are already stumbling! And in God's infinite wisdom and grace, he will use the nations' wrath against Israel to turn many Jews to their Messiah!

Don't you know that Jerusalem is called the "holy city", and this because it's God's city!? Do you recall from what mountain top Jesus ascended into heaven? Do you recall what the angel told Christ's onlookers as Jesus ascended on high? Do you know upon which mountain top Christ will return and split that mountain in half into north and south sections?

One does not even need to be premillennial in his eschatology, let alone dispensational to understand what will take place at the end of this age. Nowhere have I stated that Christ will establish some 1,000-year earthly kingdom when he returns. Quite the contrary if you go back and carefully read post 91.

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Au contraire, my friend! Israel will certainly fulfill scriptures' mandate; for God has already decreed it! He will "make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the nations". And he "will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured" (Zech 12:2,3). (How exceedingly appropriate that God through his prophet compares Jerusalem to a heavy stone, since Christ, the antitype to Israel, is also a Stone upon which either men will fall and will be broken to pieces, or the Stone will fall on them and scatter them like dust (Mat 21:44). How appropriate that God's Holy City has already become a great stone over which the nations of this world are already stumbling! And in God's infinite wisdom and grace, he will use the nations' wrath against Israel to turn many Jews to their Messiah!

Don't you know that Jerusalem is called the "holy city", and this because it's God's city!? Do you recall from what mountain top Jesus ascended into heaven? Do you recall what the angel told Christ's onlookers as Jesus ascended on high? Do you know upon which mountain top Christ will return and split that mountain in half into north and south sections?

One does not even need to be premillennial in his eschatology, let alone dispensational to understand what will take place at the end of this age. Nowhere have I stated that Christ will establish some 1,000-year earthly kingdom when he returns. Quite the contrary if you go back and carefully read post 91.

It's not any lack of information. It's interpretation. And that's what makes a horse race. Let's not bore the others.

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

That's hilarious.

Finding people has never been a problem. Finding people who are hireable is.

Take note: Nothing is going your preferred way, and if Harry Reid was still in the Senate it is likely all of your positions would be in line with his. Blowing apart your conservative claim. But you knew he would be against all your positions prior to winning the Presidency, blowing apart your idea the little Marco was the only one who could beat Hillary. You should be more genuine and admit you were all in for Hillary/Obama policy with everything you had years ago.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

It's not any lack of information. It's interpretation. And that's what makes a horse race. Let's not bore the others.

You're right. The allegorical junk would put everyone to sleep.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You're right. The allegorical junk would put everyone to sleep.

Did I miss something? I seem to have dozed off about 8-10 posts back.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by fast4522

Take note: Nothing is going your preferred way, and if Harry Reid was still in the Senate it is likely all of your positions would be in line with his. Blowing apart your conservative claim. But you knew he would be against all your positions prior to winning the Presidency, blowing apart your idea the little Marco was the only one who could beat Hillary. You should be more genuine and admit you were all in for Hillary/Obama policy with everything you had years ago.

What are you talking about?

I made a comment in response to yours about a industry I have a lot of personal experience in and you launch into diatribe about Harry Reid?

Newsflash: Democrats hate staffing agencies. They break unions and get rich off the backs of the unfortunate. Their words not mine. We own one.

For every 5 applicants only one is actually employable.

As for the rest my opinions are easily accessible on here. Name one major Obama policy I backed. Maybe New START...?

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by fast4522

Take note: Nothing is going your preferred way, and if Harry Reid was still in the Senate it is likely all of your positions would be in line with his. Blowing apart your conservative claim. But you knew he would be against all your positions prior to winning the Presidency, blowing apart your idea the little Marco was the only one who could beat Hillary. You should be more genuine and admit you were all in for Hillary/Obama policy with everything you had years ago.

Here ya go bud...

It was all R after that...

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Did I miss something? I seem to have dozed off about 8-10 posts back.

Well, when more than opinion was requested re: Trump tariff, I would have obliged:

http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2....May-20161.pdf

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

Well, when more than opinion was requested re: Trump tariff, I would have obliged:

http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2....May-20161.pdf

Didn't bother to read that. Trump doesn't understand tariffs, period. He's a realtor. There are no tariffs on real estate.

His own campaign advisor on the subject said that Trump's proposed tariffs would increase the cost of living for the average American by 10-15%. No one in the Trump camp has ever tried to deny or refute that.

All of which is moot, because Congress will never pass his tariffs. The bad news is that any president has the discretion and authority to increase or decrease certain existing tariffs. Trump recently increased tariffs on Canadian lumber, which increased the cost of new housing in this country. He apparently does not understand that tariffs, like other business taxes, are passed on to customers.

The cost of this new duty will increase Canadian lumber costs for U.S. customers by 6.4 percent, according to the National Association of Home Builders, and that will be passed on to homebuyers. The NAHB estimates it will increase the price of an average new single-family home by $1,236.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/25/trum...bout-1200.html