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12-09-2017, 09:45 AM
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#61
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Thornhill ON
Posts: 466
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Horse runs the race
All I hear at my local track the jockeys are taking turns winning Bah Bah
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12-09-2017, 01:34 PM
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#62
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco Santiago
Mostly a bunch of impertinent noise, IMO.
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One man's noise is another man's music. There are edges to be found everywhere, you just have to turn over enough rocks.
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12-10-2017, 08:28 AM
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#63
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
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Betting With An Edge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boulder
Has anybody review his book yet? Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are?
Thanks
Boulder
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This thread really got off topic, so I'll get it back on track. I just finished reading Betting With An Edge by professional horseplayer Mike Maloney. I liked it a lot. If you like racetrack stories, Mike has been doing this a long time and has some great stories in this book. I really enjoyed that part of it. As for the handicapping information, in a way it's fundamental, albeit thorough, handicappiing, but I liked it. Most people play the horses for entertainment and don't actually do a lot of work. Maloney does a lot of work, it's a full time job and then some. I have a friend who's a professional harness bettor and his approach is very similar to Maloney's, he does his own speed figures for at least a couple of circuits, he keeps strict records on track bias, etc.
One thing that I'll tell you is that even though Maloney uses Speed Figures, he doesn't trust one number, not even his own. I found that interesting because I believe that it's better to use more than one set of figures if you are serious about handicapping and betting. For instance, Maloney will compare the Beyer figures against Timeform's. If they don't agree, that's a red flag, and then he can't be that confident about the horse's ability.
If you want to read a book that's all about handicappping you might be disappointed, but if you like racetrack stories, you may love this book. I thoroughly enjoyed it. As for the handicapping part of it, there are certain parts of this book, where Maloney writes about how he bets the horses, that I truly think will help me, even though I've been doing this for a long time. I don't want to say too much because it's not fair to give out his secrets, you have to read the book. But I loved how he shows how he implements his Lock It Up and Kill Bet strategies. I'm going to use both from now one. Other parts of the book will also help me and I'll be using my copy as a reference when I'm placing my bets.
I'm pretty much the only one who has come out with handicapping books the last few years. I like reading about handicapping and horse racing and I was anxious to read this book by this renowned professional bettor. it didn't disappoint.
Last edited by pandy; 12-10-2017 at 08:30 AM.
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12-10-2017, 09:14 AM
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#64
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandy
This thread really got off topic, so I'll get it back on track. I just finished reading Betting With An Edge by professional horseplayer Mike Maloney. I liked it a lot. If you like racetrack stories, Mike has been doing this a long time and has some great stories in this book. I really enjoyed that part of it. As for the handicapping information, in a way it's fundamental, albeit thorough, handicappiing, but I liked it. Most people play the horses for entertainment and don't actually do a lot of work. Maloney does a lot of work, it's a full time job and then some. I have a friend who's a professional harness bettor and his approach is very similar to Maloney's, he does his own speed figures for at least a couple of circuits, he keeps strict records on track bias, etc.
One thing that I'll tell you is that even though Maloney uses Speed Figures, he doesn't trust one number, not even his own. I found that interesting because I believe that it's better to use more than one set of figures if you are serious about handicapping and betting. For instance, Maloney will compare the Beyer figures against Timeform's. If they don't agree, that's a red flag, and then he can't be that confident about the horse's ability.
If you want to read a book that's all about handicappping you might be disappointed, but if you like racetrack stories, you may love this book. I thoroughly enjoyed it. As for the handicapping part of it, there are certain parts of this book, where Maloney writes about how he bets the horses, that I truly think will help me, even though I've been doing this for a long time. I don't want to say too much because it's not fair to give out his secrets, you have to read the book. But I loved how he shows how he implements his Lock It Up and Kill Bet strategies. I'm going to use both from now one. Other parts of the book will also help me and I'll be using my copy as a reference when I'm placing my bets.
I'm pretty much the only one who has come out with handicapping books the last few years. I like reading about handicapping and horse racing and I was anxious to read this book by this renowned professional bettor. it didn't disappoint.
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Good review Pandy, the highlighted portion is something I've learned the hard way, and practically no other hcp-ing writers mention it.
__________________
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.
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12-11-2017, 08:11 AM
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#65
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NEW YORK CITY
Posts: 3,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whosonfirst
Good review Pandy, the highlighted portion is something I've learned the hard way, and practically no other hcp-ing writers mention it.
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Has anyone ever do a side by side comparison?
The numbers I know are Timeform's, Beyer's, and HDW's....are there more?
And to answer my question..its probably NO because of the cost it will occur....
Mike
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12-11-2017, 08:34 AM
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#66
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesal57
Has anyone ever do a side by side comparison?
The numbers I know are Timeform's, Beyer's, and HDW's....are there more?
And to answer my question..its probably NO because of the cost it will occur....
Mike
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For speed figures in the most widely used past performances, there are Bris, Trackmaster (Equibase), Timeform, Beyer. I actually think that the speed figures that Trackmaster generates in their pps are different from the regular Equibase speed figures that appear in the track programs that are sold at simulcast centers. So there are five different types of speed figures regularly available in the most well-known past performance publications. Every one has occasional bad or suspect figures. We know this because one could have a horse's last race as clearly the fastest in the race, while another may show the same last race performance as the third fastest in the race. Obviously, one of them is wrong. When you make speed figures, you're taking your best guess. Sometimes you guess wrong. Equibase and Brisnet are computer generated figures, but because of tricky track changes (such as a track that gets faster or slower as the day goes on), or limited data (six turf races, only three dirt races), it can be tough to compute an accurate variant, be it by computer or a real live handicapper.
Obviously, Maloney makes some really big bets. In his book he pointed out that if, for instance, the Beyer speed figure is much different than the Timeform speed figure on a particular horse, that raises a red flag. If you think about it, say you are a big chalk bettor who likes to bet $500 to win. You see a horse that ran a 95 Beyer in his second career start, and the horse looks at least two lengths better than anything in the field. The horse is 7-5 today. Now you check Timeform and see that the horse was given an 85 for its last race and two other horses in the race are ranked ahead of it. Are you still going to bet the $500? Is the horse the fastest in the race or not?
Last edited by pandy; 12-11-2017 at 08:40 AM.
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12-11-2017, 08:38 AM
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#67
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NEW YORK CITY
Posts: 3,670
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Thxs Pandy for clearing the names up...
But I assume no one has done a study on them....correct?
Mike
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12-11-2017, 08:40 AM
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#68
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesal57
Has anyone ever do a side by side comparison?
The numbers I know are Timeform's, Beyer's, and HDW's....are there more?
And to answer my question..its probably NO because of the cost it will occur....
Mike
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BRIS also makes their own speed figures. You can get selective PPs free here:
http://www.trks2day.com/trks2day.html
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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12-11-2017, 08:41 AM
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#69
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesal57
Thxs Pandy for clearing the names up...
But I assume no one has done a study on them....correct?
Mike
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I believe there was a study done comparing Bris to Beyer.
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12-11-2017, 08:51 AM
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#70
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NEW YORK CITY
Posts: 3,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
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Thxs Clocker....one of my favorite sites for years
I believe that every handicapper should read the PP's no mater what they do manually or with a computer.
EX:
I use one of the top expensive programs that's related to this board
Quite a few times , it will spit out a horse like this:
RAces 28...wins 2....seconds 8....thirds 6
what are the chances of him winning?
what are the chances of him coming in the money?
Will you know this WITHOUT reading PP's ???
Another example will be a horse coming out of a limit wins condition, racing against multiple winners with twice their wins...
What are their chances....???
What I'm saying is read the PP's!!!
Mike
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12-12-2017, 11:15 AM
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#71
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesal57
Thxs Pandy for clearing the names up...
But I assume no one has done a study on them....correct?
Mike
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This was mentioned a few months back. The answer is yes and here's the post that was most pertinent.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...7&postcount=79
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12-12-2017, 11:54 AM
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#72
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NEW YORK CITY
Posts: 3,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubercapper
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Thxs buddy...appreciate that
IMO ....Theres no doubt he found something ...
come on ,anyone with all that info in the palm of thier hands has to come up with something...
and to say that it was his plan and he knew exactly what was going to happen..
he played all their egos and came out the winner!!!
mike
Last edited by mikesal57; 12-12-2017 at 11:55 AM.
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12-13-2017, 05:37 PM
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#73
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Merritt.B. C.
Posts: 24
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Betting with an edge ...
Well I would like to order it..but ... From DRF the book is about U.S.$35 ,
great...but shipping is another U.S. $37 !!
So I go to Amazon.Com...they want U.S. $48...well OK, but .. they want another U.S. $43.93 for shipping.
Convert those amounts to our 'sad ass Canadian 'Turdo' dollars and you are looking at well over a hundred bucks or so.
Any viewers from "The Great White North" have you got any better sources ??
(and don't tell me to wait until our dollar goes back up in value, I probably won't live that long !) Still it sounds like a interesting read.
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12-15-2017, 12:30 PM
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#74
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,831
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huh? since when is shipping so high to canada?
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12-25-2017, 10:51 AM
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#75
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Started reading it last night.
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