Presque Isle Surface Analysis

[cj]

After one day, I don't see much different from the other synthetic surfaces. Speed seems to do fine in sprints, but will probably really be up against it around two turns.

Again though, it is early, so we will see.

[Premier Turf Club]

Originally Posted by BIG RED

Who is out of Sasquatch?

It took me awhile.

In KY they call my partner Dr. Shoe because he can spend hours and hours talking about shoeing, feet, confirmation. I've seen him come up with some ridiculous longshots based on how he thought a particular confirmation would take to a surface. A number of high profile trainers ask his advice on whether a horse will like a particular surface before they try them on it (turf, mud, shipping out of town, Poly, etc.).

I think he would have been a very successful trainer (he and Shug worked together at one point) but he didn't have the owners and he took to selling horse farms. We're looking forward to him providing real-time paddock insights at some point down the road.

[JustMissed]

Originally Posted by Premier Turf Club

Big footed horses have done well in the first 2, and the small footed 2nd fave in the 2nd didn't care for the surface. In the 3rd 1, 2,4,6 look like they'll take to the surface whereas the 5,7, 10 don't look as strong. Later on in the card big footed Museeb 7th would be a play at 3-1+.

I will be working my third consecutive week in Ocala, Florida next week.

I usually finish up at the simulcast bar about 2:00 pm, in time to catch quite a few races, and thought I might print a copy of your post to show the boys(mostly owners, barn managers & workout jockeys).

Knowing that most of the boys are not covered by WorkersCompensation Insurance I decided that would not be a good thing. If they read your comment about "big footed horses" they might very well bust a gut from laughing so hard. I don't believe "bust a gut syndrome" is covered by most insurance.

Maybe you should be more carefull about what you write.

JM

[Premier Turf Club]

I don't follow? Do you not believe that certain types of confirmation like certain tracks or that big-footed horses don't have an advantage on Tapeta?

The comment on foot size came not from me, but from Michael Dickinson's assistant Henrietta Steele who told us that small footed horses won't be as disadvantaged on Tapeta as they are on Poly but added that there big footed grass horses really seemed to like the surface.

[JustMissed]

Originally Posted by Premier Turf Club

I don't follow? Do you not believe that certain types of confirmation like certain tracks or that big-footed horses don't have an advantage on Tapeta?

The comment on foot size came not from me, but from Michael Dickinson's assistant Henrietta Steele who told us that small footed horses won't be as disadvantaged on Tapeta as they are on Poly but added that there big footed grass horses really seemed to like the surface.

Thanks for the clarification.

I'll show your post to the pinhookers. I think they might find it very interesting.

JM

[DanG]

Originally Posted by JustMissed

Thanks for the clarification.

I'll show your post to the pinhookers. I think they might find it very interesting.

JM

JM,

Do you ever make it over to Tampa Bay Downs?

I just have to see who’s on the other end of this trolling…

[JustMissed]

Originally Posted by DanG

JM,

Do you ever make it over to Tampa Bay Downs?

I just have to see who’s on the other end of this trolling…

Yes, I live on the Dunedin Causeway, about six miles or so fromTBD. Me and my three sons would be glad to me with you anywhere you choose.

Not sure what you ment about trolling,, but I'm sure you will be happy to clarify that.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by JustMissed

Yes, I live on the Dunedin Causeway, about six miles or so fromTBD. Me and my three sons would be glad to me with you anywhere you choose.

Not sure what you ment about trolling,, but I'm sure you will be happy to clarify that.

All right!

Just a few months until Margo is picking winner after winner. Please notify me when it’s a good time for you and we can reminisce about racing, trolling or whatever.

Now back to this excellent thread that Ian (PTC) has generously offered.

[JustMissed]

Originally Posted by DanG

All right!

Just a few months until Margo is picking winner after winner. Please notify me when it’s a good time for you and we can reminisce about racing, trolling or whatever.

Now back to this excellent thread that Ian (PTC) has generously offered.

Thanks, I think is get it. Sorry that I might have steped on some toes.

I willl not post anymore.

Good luck to you guys,

JM

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by bigmack

In the maiden voyage on the tapeta tossed track the Lake trained, pace setting chalk pulled up after 2.

Tragically euthanized.

Total attendance: 15737. Number of betting windows open: 14!

[JustRalph]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/rac...ural-meet.aspx

Tapeta Footings inventor Michael Dickinson experienced a nightmare come true on Saturday at Presque Isle Downs in Erie, Pennsylvania, when a horse broke down in the first race ever run on the synthetic surface.

The fatal breakdown of Home Team Stables’ and Dennis Johnson’s Cantrel marred an otherwise thrilling beginning to Presque Isle, which began its inaugural 25-day meet with the $100,000 Inaugural Stakes for three-year-old fillies going six furlongs.

more at the link

[speedking]

Originally Posted by Premier Turf Club

I don't follow? Do you not believe that certain types of confirmation like certain tracks or that big-footed horses don't have an advantage on Tapeta?

The comment on foot size came not from me, but from Michael Dickinson's assistant Henrietta Steele who told us that small footed horses won't be as disadvantaged on Tapeta as they are on Poly but added that there big footed grass horses really seemed to like the surface.

I spent many years on-track and was at the paddock for every race, weather permitting. Among other things, I always looked at the size of the hoof for grass races and off tracks, along with trying to check for calks.

A large, flat hoof is beneficial on the turf and some say it helps on synthetics also. A smaller hoof does well on off tracks. Taught this by PG Johnson, who knew a thing or 2 about turf horses

speedking

[DanG]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/rac...ural-meet.aspx

Tapeta Footings inventor Michael Dickinson experienced a nightmare come true on Saturday at Presque Isle Downs in Erie, Pennsylvania, when a horse broke down in the first race ever run on the synthetic surface.

The fatal breakdown of Home Team Stables’ and Dennis Johnson’s Cantrel marred an otherwise thrilling beginning to Presque Isle, which began its inaugural 25-day meet with the $100,000 Inaugural Stakes for three-year-old fillies going six furlongs.

more at the link

Lake’s quote from the article;

“I breezed five horses over [Tapeta on Saturday morning], and they all went great,” said Lake, who has 24 horses stabled at Presque Isle. “I brought horses here who haven’t trained well [on dirt] who have really found their stride here. [Cantrel] just took a bad step; there’s nothing wrong with the track.”

IMHO: Tapeta along with “Cushion track” will prove to be the best of the new surfaces for American racing.

[rrbauer]

Originally Posted by speedking

I spent many years on-track and was at the paddock for every race, weather permitting. Among other things, I always looked at the size of the hoof for grass races and off tracks, along with trying to check for calks.

A large, flat hoof is beneficial on the turf and some say it helps on synthetics also. A smaller hoof does well on off tracks. Taught this by PG Johnson, who knew a thing or 2 about turf horses

speedking

The big pancake-hoof doing well on grass is older than I am (which makes it ancient). It's a very good indicator IMO. PI was getting ripped at another board because speed horses were dying on the vine. Yet from what I'm reading here that's not the case?

[Premier Turf Club]

I didn't think speed was all that bad. Look at the running styles of the winners:

Race 1 Sprint: Presser
Race 2 Sprint: Sustained
Race 3 Sprint: Wire to Wire
Race 4 Sprint Presser/Sustained
Race 5 Route: Sustained
Race 6 Route: Sustained
Race 7 Sprint: Wire to Wire
Race 8 Sprint: Presser

It's not Turf Paradise, but it's not all 3rd fraction either. My guess is using the HTR scale of (+5 intense speed to -5 all 3rd fraction horses) that sprints will run about 0/-1 and routes -1/-2. I don't think we'll see some of the crazy Polytrack races where GR1 types run 6F in 116 and all finish within 2 lengths of each other.