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05-20-2018, 10:44 PM
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
I'm sure Powell had reasons for advising against taking down Saddam, but he was hardly the only one in the administration.
It was quite clear at the time that our Arab allies in the region had no desire or goal to do anything other than liberate Kuwait. It was feared that we would be largely on our own. The lack of Arabs allies would make us look like the Crusaders.
Also, many in the administration were convinced that taking out Saddam without a replacement government ready to take control would result in sectarian violence. What a wild and crazy thought!
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Nevermind the fact that Total War is a pretty rare thing. Wars are usually fought over pretty limited aims.
The Liberation of Kuwait being one of them. Just Cause, Odyssey Dawn, Inherent Resolve... a few that spring to mind.
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05-20-2018, 10:58 PM
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Nevermind the fact that Total War is a pretty rare thing. Wars are usually fought over pretty limited aims.
The Liberation of Kuwait being one of them. Just Cause, Odyssey Dawn, Inherent Resolve... a few that spring to mind.
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Exactly. We and our allies had planned for the liberation of Kuwait. We had no plans or agreements or resources in place to go any further.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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05-24-2018, 10:02 AM
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
This is good news.
However, I can't help but feel all this going on with N. Korea is EXACTLY what ol' Kim wants. He's now being treated as a BIG BOY on the BIG STAGE.
He's leveraged his nuclear weapons program into becoming a major player and is now set to meet with the POTUS.
He is now, for all intents and purposes, being taken seriously, which is what he's always wanted, no?
Kim's plan has worked to perfection as far as I can tell.
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Props for being one that saw the game for what it is.
Kim is using the goodwill he's built up to weaken the coalition against his regime while backing out of the summit.
Playing everybody.
Meanwhile... John Bolton...
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05-24-2018, 10:49 AM
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Props for being one that saw the game for what it is.
Kim is using the goodwill he's built up to weaken the coalition against his regime while backing out of the summit.
Playing everybody.
Meanwhile... John Bolton...
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Who exactly in your estimation doesn't see Kim as a weasel? Who did he play?
Does that mean we should never talk to him in case they want change? You seem stuck on the idea that people cannot change opinions and that we should simply wait for organic change to occur without influencing it. My thoughts are that if you seek change, step in and help it along according to your best self interests. In this case, it didn't work out, but you don't know it until you try. I also think putting Kim on the same level as Trump is overstated by a large degree. Everyone sees Kim as they always have.
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05-24-2018, 11:20 AM
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker6
Who exactly in your estimation doesn't see Kim as a weasel? Who did he play?
Does that mean we should never talk to him in case they want change? You seem stuck on the idea that people cannot change opinions and that we should simply wait for organic change to occur without influencing it. My thoughts are that if you seek change, step in and help it along according to your best self interests. In this case, it didn't work out, but you don't know it until you try. I also think putting Kim on the same level as Trump is overstated by a large degree. Everyone sees Kim as they always have.
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There wasn't a slam on Trump in there... in case you didn't notice that.
PA gets props for noticing how "friendly" they acted in the lead-up and called shenanigans... while others were calling for a Peace Prize.
Nothing to do with Trump.
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05-24-2018, 11:23 AM
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
... while others were calling for a Peace Prize.
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Not likely. Summit cancelled.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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05-24-2018, 11:37 AM
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
Not likely. Summit cancelled.
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King takes Bishop...
Meeting will happen sometime before 2020.
__________________
Remember To Help Old Friends Thoroughbred Retirement Center.
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05-24-2018, 11:59 AM
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntheRail
Meeting will happen sometime before 2020.
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Not unless somebody blinks on a major issue. Trump wants to negotiate denuclearization, Lil' Kim says that is not on the table for discussion.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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05-24-2018, 12:55 PM
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,184
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China is at the bottom of this.
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05-24-2018, 01:11 PM
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#55
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gelding
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker6
China is at the bottom of this.
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Who? Say again?
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05-24-2018, 01:41 PM
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Nevermind the fact that Total War is a pretty rare thing. Wars are usually fought over pretty limited aims.
The Liberation of Kuwait being one of them. Just Cause, Odyssey Dawn, Inherent Resolve... a few that spring to mind.
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Don't forget Urgent Fury when we simply crushed the brave Grenadians.
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05-24-2018, 02:03 PM
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing
Don't forget Urgent Fury when we simply crushed the brave Grenadians.
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Grenadians -> Grenada -> Grenade
We're lucky we aren't still over there...
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05-24-2018, 02:25 PM
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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05-24-2018, 09:17 PM
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14,572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker6
China is at the bottom of this.
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................and the middle.
Oh, and don't forget the top.
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05-26-2018, 11:02 PM
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
Not unless somebody blinks on a major issue. Trump wants to negotiate denuclearization, Lil' Kim says that is not on the table for discussion.
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Blink?
SEOUL, May 27 (Reuters) - North Korean leader Kim Jong Un reaffirmed his commitment to "complete" denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula and to a planned meeting with U.S. President Donald Trump, South Korean President Moon Jae-in said on Sunday.
__________________
Remember To Help Old Friends Thoroughbred Retirement Center.
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