The Iraqi Handover

[Secretariat]

Today Bush officially handed over the sovereignity to the Iraqi council.

[cj]

That's pretty funny, joking about people being blown up...no class.

[PaceAdvantage]

That's what they are hoping for. I didn't notice any of these guys touting the record new home sales released last week.

Nope, only stuff that is bad for America. That's what they report, and hope for.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
That's pretty funny, joking about people being blown up...no class.

Aww CJ,Cant you see SEC is trying to rattle your chain...Glad they handed over iraq back to the people,I now feel USA will be able to do more.Making today the "BIG DAY" hopfully messed up some terrorist's plans to blow somethig up, Hopefully it will set the captives free.Would now be nice if Bush made a surprise anouncement tell us The Guys Are Coming Home...Will also be glad to see the Iraqi army trained to do the job.
Please pray for the captives

[Secretariat]

Thanks McShell..it was meant as a cartoon satire...certainly no one here wishes any harm to come to anyone...although CJ, you were rather silent when some posters spoke about nuking Baghdad.

This is an interesting issue though -- should we be censoring comic caricaturists from newspapers or stand up comedians if their POV is in opposition to administration policy?

[cj]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Thanks McShell..it was meant as a cartoon satire...certainly no one here wishes any harm to come to anyone...although CJ, you were rather silent when some posters spoke about nuking Baghdad.

This is an interesting issue though -- should we be censoring comic caricaturists from newspapers or stand up comedians if their POV is in opposition to administration policy?

I don't read all the posts, and I didn't see those. I am certainly not for "nuking" anyone.

This has nothing to do with "point of view." You can express your point of view without making fun of the people who are being blown up nearly every day. By posting that cartoon, you show your true colors.

What exactly is funny about people dying that makes you laugh?

[JustMissed]

Where's your beheading cartoon, A-Hole. Unbelievable.

My wife said just last night after watching 60 Minutes; "Easy to figure out who to vote for, just vote for whoever Michael Moore and Babs Streisand are against." I could add your name to that group.

JM

[lsbets]

Sec, as someone who has had the misfortune of being way too close to a couple of IEDs, I will tell you there is not a damned thing comic about that cartoon.

[CryingForTheHorses]

BAD Boy Sec!!!!
OMG,What is wrong with the world??..NOBODY wants to see other people hurt..Just the terrorists...All these cartoons..Hell how do you think us Canadians felt when they had a cartoon of our navy for the gulf war..had 2 guys paddling out to the gulf war in a canoe!!!...You do know canoe's flip over easy...wasnt funny with our guys in them high waves..Lighen up guys, We are all trying to get thu this war the best way we can..See the MEDIA has again caused turmoil

[cj]

Posted by our boy sec...

It's disgusting, and if its meant as a joke its not even funny, and places disdain on servicemen who gave their lives for the country fighting

I'm practicing to make a documentary, placing quotes completely out of context. How am I doing so far?

[cj]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
BAD Boy Sec!!!!
OMG,What is wrong with the world??..NOBODY wants to see other people hurt..Just the terrorists...All these cartoons..Hell how do you think us Canadians felt when they had a cartoon of our navy for the gulf war..had 2 guys paddling out to the gulf war in a canoe!!!...You do know canoe's flip over easy...wasnt funny with our guys in them high waves..Lighen up guys, We are all trying to get thu this war the best way we can..See the MEDIA has again caused turmoil

Hey McSchell,

How many Canadians have died fighting this war?

[hcap]

NYT..

The United States handed over sovereignty to an interim Iraqi government today in a low-key ceremony ahead of the June 30 date when it had been expected to do so, a surprise move apparently timed to pre-empt any planning of attacks by insurgents.

From Juan Cole...
http://www.juancole.com/

It is hard to interpret this move as anything but a precipitous flight. It is just speculation on my part, but I suspect that the Americans must have developed intelligence that there might be a major strike on the Coalition Provisional Headquarters on Wednesday if a formal ceremony were held to mark a transfer of sovereignty. Since the US military is so weak in Iraq and appears to have poor intelligence on the guerrilla insurgency, the Bush administration could not take the chance that a major bombing or other attack would mar the ceremony.

.....This entire exercise is a publicity stunt and has almost no substance to it. Gwen Ifill said on US television on Sunday that she had talked to Condaleeza Rice, and that her hope was that when something went wrong in Iraq, the journalists would now grill Allawi about it rather than the Bush administration. (Or words to that effect). Ifill seems to me to have given away the whole Bush show. That's what this whole thing is about. It is Public Relations and manipulation of journalists. Let's see if they fall for it.

Allawi is not popular and was not elected by anyone in Iraq. The Kurds were sullen today. There were no public celebrations in Baghdad. When people in the Arab world are really happy, there is celebratory fire. They are willing to give Allawi a chance, but that is different from wholehearted support.

What has changed? The big change is that Allawi now controls the Iraqi government's $20 billion a year in income. About $10 bn. of that is oil revenues, and those may be hurt this year by extensive sabotage. To tell you the truth, I can't imagine where the other $10 bn. comes from. The government can't collect much in taxes. Some of it may be foreign aid, but not much of that has come in. The problem is that the Iraqi government probably needs $30 billion to run the government properly, and with only 2/3s of that or less, the government will be weak and somewhat ineffective.

Since Bremer was a congenital screw-up, just getting him and his CPA out of the country and out of control may be a good step forward. Allawi won't care about Polish style shock therapy for the economy. Allawi does not have any investment in keeping Iraq weak or preventing it from having a proper army. But how the Iraqi military, if brought back, can operate in a security environment where there are 160,000 foreign troops under US command is unclear.

So that some group of Iraqis now control the budget and can set key policy in some regards may be significant. But the caretaker government is hedged around by American power. Negroponte (the US ambassador to Baghdad who has just arrived in the country) will control $18 bn. in US AID to Iraq. Rumsfeld will go on controlling the US and coalition military. There isn't much space left for real Iraqi sovereignty in all that.

Another danger is that Allawi will overshoot and provide too much security. He is infatuated with reviving the Baath secret police or mukhabarat, and bringing back Saddam's domestic spies. Unlike the regular army, which had dirty and clean elements, all of the secret police are dirty, and if they are restored, civil liberties are a dead letter.

The guerrilla insurgency will continue, perhaps become more active. My wife Shahin, always a keen and canny observer, thinks the guerrillas will make their priority number one the assassination of Allawi.

[chickenhead]

Let me go on a little Monday afternoon tirade here.....

I don't think that cartoon was meant to be "funny" haha.

Maybe it's supposed to make you think, what exactly are we handing over to them? As my main man Al Sweregen on Deadwood would say, we are handing them a bag of sh*t.

But, they deserve that bag of sh*t. Why? Because in the end we all get what we deserve. I was against this thing from the get go. Why? Because democracy and freedom are not easy to achieve, unless you're willing to fight for them. These guys in Iraq aren't willing to stand up and fight for them. Who are the Iraqi George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, et. al? Maybe they do exist and are out there fighting the good fight, I don't know.

Iraq was a bag of sh*t before, it is a bag of sh*t now, and I'm guessing it will continue to be a bag of sh*t for the foreseeable future. The only difference between before and now is now we are holding the bag. Some people want to try to give it to the UN, some people want to keep it and try and squeeze some juice out of it, I say it is a bag of sh*t that we never should have picked up in the first place, and we should throw it back in the dumpster and try and learn a lesson.

You pick up a bag of sh*t, all you get are stinky hands.

[Tom]

After 30+ years, the Iraqi people finally have control of their country again. The tyrant is gone. His sons are dead. The toture machine has been dismantled. People of Iraw have something they have not had in decades...hope. We did what we said we woudl do, We liberated tham and turned over the country to the people who rightfully own it, but have been denied for years after Sadam literally stole it for them.
And th eUN is working with us, and Nato is sending in people to train security people.
This is indeed a bad day for liberals.
Contrary to the stupid kite flying scene in Michael Moron's crockumentary, life wasn ot peaceful and calm for the Iraqi people whiles SH was the occupying force.
And now th eUN inspectors are finding evidence of nuclear activity in Iran. Sounds like the attention to the war on terror is still chugging along, slowy but surely.
Libs, no need to reply. You have absolutely nothing to add to this day.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
Hey McSchell,

How many Canadians have died fighting this war?

WHOAAAAA CJ
SEC didnt do anything wrong with posting that cartoon. I also have posted before in other posts of HOW ashamed i am that CANADA isnt in that war helping.You have NO RIGHT to insinuate that CANADA isnt on the side of freedom. NOBODY wants to see anybody hurt, NOBODY meant any harm,