 |
|
08-18-2018, 04:09 PM
|
#7831
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Yes...but by merely SUGGESTING such a thing to Abraham...it proves that such an act could not have been an "abomination to God". Why would God suggest an "abomination"?
|
No, it doesn't prove that. If God had allowed Abraham to sacrifice his son, then it would have proved that. By God staying Abraham's hand, it proved that he is righteous and gracious.
We must not forget: God's command was to test Abraham's faith.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 04:43 PM
|
#7832
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
Now give the reason why God Almighty chose not to save all mankind.....
|
You mean you don't know?
Let me ask you this: If there were no hell (the final judgment of the wicked), would the Cross of Christ have been necessary?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
|
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 04:45 PM
|
#7833
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
But what YOU say proves everything.  |
Not according to Actor, who keeps insisting the "bible proves nothing." 
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
|
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 04:48 PM
|
#7834
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
I never could figure out how sacrificing innocent people somehow make up for the sins of others...kind of like saying the holocaust gulag victims make up for the sins of hitler, Lenin, Stalin, etc...
Just kinda weird, sacrifice your innocent daughter to make up for the sins of someone else....justice?
|
Sacrificing the "innocent" does not and cannot make up the for the sins of others. Innocence is not God's standard for pleasing him. Righteousness is! Big difference. YUGE difference, in fact!
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
|
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 05:27 PM
|
#7835
|
|
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Sacrificing the "innocent" does not and cannot make up the for the sins of others. Innocence is not God's standard for pleasing him. Righteousness is! Big difference. YUGE difference, in fact!
|
So sacrificing the righteous pleases an angry god...?
So why does god only accept sacrifices that are without blemish...?
Why does god want sacrifices at all...it doesn’t make any sense...seems like Jesus could have done a lot more here on earth had he stuck around....
|
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 06:55 PM
|
#7836
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,546
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
No, it doesn't prove that. If God had allowed Abraham to sacrifice his son, then it would have proved that. By God staying Abraham's hand, it proved that he is righteous and gracious.
|
We have different definitions for the words "righteous", and "gracious".
A God asks us to sacrifice our son in order to prove our "faith" in him...and we are supposed to call such a God 'righteous' and 'gracious'...simply because he stopped us from completing this senseless sacrifice? My sort of God doesn't make such unreasonable demands. If a God is this cruel...then I wash my hands of him.
__________________
Live to play another day.
|
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 07:08 PM
|
#7837
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
No, it doesn't prove that. If God had allowed Abraham to sacrifice his son, then it would have proved that. By God staying Abraham's hand, it proved that he is righteous and gracious.
We must not forget: God's command was to test Abraham's faith.
|
Believing there was a historical figure Abraham, who answered to an "external god" "testing" Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac, misses the essence of what "sacrifice" means. Another case where the "internal teaching story" is confused for a "historical happening".
The THEME that survives is what must be done internally to shift ones predominant aim from attachment to things in life to following the inner spiritual path. Smart sacrifice, or conscious suffering is spiritual work.
Buddha had it right: pretty much all of our struggles, from frustrations to anxiety, from anger to sadness, from grief to worry, all stem from the same thing …
The struggles come from being too tightly attached to something.
Of cousre we are attached to physical things. We get owned owning. However the psychological is more subtle.
When we’re worried, we are tightly attached to how we want things to be, rather than relaxing into accepting whatever might happen when we put forth our best effort. When we’re frustrated with someone, it’s because we’re attached to how we want them to be, rather than accepting them as the flawed amazing human they are. When we procrastinate, we are attached to things being easy and comfortable (like distractions) rather than accepting that to do something important, we have to at first push into discomfort.
Sacrificing Isaac represents a profound letting go. Or we get trapped. Not killing our children, again and again and again, ad infinitum.
Catching Monkeys in India.......
The trap “consists of a hollowed-out coconut, chained to a stake. The coconut has some rice inside which can be grabbed through a small hole”. The monkey’s hand fits through the hole, but his clenched fist can’t fit back out. “The monkey is suddenly trapped.” But not by anything physical.
He’s trapped by an idea, unable to see that a principle that served him well – “when you see rice, hold on tight!” – has become lethal.
Last edited by hcap; 08-18-2018 at 07:10 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 07:41 PM
|
#7838
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
So sacrificing the righteous pleases an angry god...?
So why does god only accept sacrifices that are without blemish...?
Why does god want sacrifices at all...it doesn’t make any sense...seems like Jesus could have done a lot more here on earth had he stuck around....
|
Sacrificing the righteous satisfies God's infinite justice. All throughout the bible, God is portrayed as a righteous God. And a righteous being, by definition, must be just. Read Rom 5:12-21 carefully. It's a closely worded analogy that contrasts Adam with the Last Adam (Christ).
Also read Rom 3:25-26 in which it teaches that the cross of Christ demonstrates God's righteousness (justice).
And when Jesus left this earth to ascend into heaven, he did not leave his own as orphans but gave them the Holy Spirit (Jn 14:18-26).
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
|
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 07:44 PM
|
#7839
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap
Believing there was a historical figure Abraham, who answered to an "external god" "testing" Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac, misses the essence of what "sacrifice" means. Another case where the "internal teaching story" is confused for a "historical happening".
The THEME that survives is what must be done internally to shift ones predominant aim from attachment to things in life to following the inner spiritual path. Smart sacrifice, or conscious suffering is spiritual work.
Buddha had it right: pretty much all of our struggles, from frustrations to anxiety, from anger to sadness, from grief to worry, all stem from the same thing …
The struggles come from being too tightly attached to something.
Of cousre we are attached to physical things. We get owned owning. However the psychological is more subtle.
When we’re worried, we are tightly attached to how we want things to be, rather than relaxing into accepting whatever might happen when we put forth our best effort. When we’re frustrated with someone, it’s because we’re attached to how we want them to be, rather than accepting them as the flawed amazing human they are. When we procrastinate, we are attached to things being easy and comfortable (like distractions) rather than accepting that to do something important, we have to at first push into discomfort.
Sacrificing Isaac represents a profound letting go. Or we get trapped. Not killing our children, again and again and again, ad infinitum.
Catching Monkeys in India.......
The trap “consists of a hollowed-out coconut, chained to a stake. The coconut has some rice inside which can be grabbed through a small hole”. The monkey’s hand fits through the hole, but his clenched fist can’t fit back out. “The monkey is suddenly trapped.” But not by anything physical.
He’s trapped by an idea, unable to see that a principle that served him well – “when you see rice, hold on tight!” – has become lethal.
|
You excel in filtering out the sensible sense of scripture, thereby losing the meaning intended by the ancient writer and the understanding of the original audience.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
|
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 07:45 PM
|
#7840
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
We have different definitions for the words "righteous", and "gracious".
A God asks us to sacrifice our son in order to prove our "faith" in him...and we are supposed to call such a God 'righteous' and 'gracious'...simply because he stopped us from completing this senseless sacrifice? My sort of God doesn't make such unreasonable demands. If a God is this cruel...then I wash my hands of him.
|
Who is "us"? God tested Abraham only. Extrapolate much?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
|
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 08:03 PM
|
#7841
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
You excel in filtering out the sensible sense of scripture, thereby losing the meaning intended by the ancient writer and the understanding of the original audience.
|
You exceed in filtering out wisdom,. You succeed at confusing the map for the territory for the 1000th time.
The external story of Abraham actually being tested,
NEVER HAPPENED.
You totally destroy the value of the bibles' themes and teaching story's
|
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 09:06 PM
|
#7842
|
|
Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Not according to Actor, who keeps insisting the "bible proves nothing."
|
The Bible proves nothing. You appeal to the Bible. Ergo, what you say proves nothing.
Is not logic wonderful?
By the way, "scientism" is not in my Webster's dictionary, ergo, according to boxcar it's not a word.
__________________
Sapere aude
|
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 09:10 PM
|
#7843
|
|
Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
You mean you don't know?
|
I don't think you know, and you ducked and pivoted as usual.....Same 'Ol, same 'Ol.
|
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 09:17 PM
|
#7844
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,546
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
I don't think you know, and you ducked and pivoted as usual.....Same 'Ol, same 'Ol.
|
Be patient...he is checking the fundamentalist websites as we speak. Your answer should be up soon. 
__________________
Live to play another day.
|
|
|
|
|
08-18-2018, 09:18 PM
|
#7845
|
|
Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Be patient...he is checking the fundamentalist websites as we speak. Your answer should be up soon. |
It's a two-word answer for heaven's sake...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
