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07-29-2009, 03:27 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 684
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"Headless Horsemen" - Interesting thoughts
Well, if you believe this fellow the great Secretariat may have been racing on steroids & for us "oldtimers", Frank Whiteley gave his steeds cocaine.
Nevertheless, an interesting review in todays WSJ.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...660820594.html
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07-29-2009, 03:34 PM
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#2
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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The physical characteristics of Secretariat would have regressed if they were drug induced. You cannot create a known cardiovascular system of that size and efficiency, or a gait as near perfect as that via the pharmacy.
Dr. George Pratt's evaluation of his gait efficiency stated that it was like NO OTHER he ever studied. See the video "A Magical Way of Going."
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"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
Last edited by 46zilzal; 07-29-2009 at 03:39 PM.
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07-29-2009, 05:07 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wyoming, near Yellowstone Park...born/raised in Brooklyn,NY
Posts: 7,557
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Oh boy...let's start getting after trainers long gone now too...for cryin' out loud!
Secretariat & Ruffian no less...pah-leese 
Not sure about Ruffian...but it's common knowledge that Big Red's heart & lungs were huge...and that his stride was as efficient as they come...plus, knowing Lucien, I would be totally shocked to find out he ever used steriods on any of his horses...total crap if you ask me!
Hey Zil...is there a link to that video (Magical Way of Going)...I've never seen it.
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joanied
"All we have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us"
Gandalf the Grey
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07-30-2009, 06:13 PM
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#4
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,651
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by fmhealth
Well, if you believe this fellow the great Secretariat may have been racing on steroids & for us "oldtimers", Frank Whiteley gave his steeds cocaine.
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I've been wondering aloud about this kind of thing for years...everyone loves to hearken back to the "good ol' days" as if nobody "cheated" back then, or had "the juice."
Come on...give me a break...steroids have been around professional sports since the early 1960s if memory serves....
And even if 46zilzal is 100% correct in his reply here, it doesn't negate the possibility of Secretariat running on steroids. It could have been the thing that pushed him from greatness to legend....
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07-30-2009, 06:16 PM
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#5
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by joanied
O
Hey Zil...is there a link to that video (Magical Way of Going)...I've never seen it.
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It is often shown on PBS and I have a copy of it.
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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07-30-2009, 08:29 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wyoming, near Yellowstone Park...born/raised in Brooklyn,NY
Posts: 7,557
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 46zilzal
It is often shown on PBS and I have a copy of it.
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It rings a bell in my head....we don't usually watch PBS...maybe I can get on their web site and do a search...I did a Google and tried youtube...no luck.
I'll keep trying, maybe I'll find it somewhere...thanks, Zil.
__________________
joanied
"All we have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us"
Gandalf the Grey
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07-30-2009, 08:33 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wyoming, near Yellowstone Park...born/raised in Brooklyn,NY
Posts: 7,557
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
I've been wondering aloud about this kind of thing for years...everyone loves to hearken back to the "good ol' days" as if nobody "cheated" back then, or had "the juice."
Come on...give me a break...steroids have been around professional sports since the early 1960s if memory serves....
And even if 46zilzal is 100% correct in his reply here, it doesn't negate the possibility of Secretariat running on steroids. It could have been the thing that pushed him from greatness to legend....
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I realize that these 'enhancers' have been around since day one...in different forms, trainers have been doin' this and that for ever...at least, some trainers...but, if we decide that most did enhance horses 'back in the day', like Big Red and Ruffian, since they were the horses mentioned in the first post...then we'd have to beleive that many, even most, of our great horses became that because they were on steriods or what have you...
geeze, that would open quite the can of worms 
__________________
joanied
"All we have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us"
Gandalf the Grey
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07-30-2009, 11:24 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 476
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by fmhealth
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I do believe that Secretariat also ran on Lasix. Of course, at the time, the DRF did not report Lasix use in the Past Performance lines.
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07-31-2009, 12:36 AM
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#9
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by macguy
I do believe that Secretariat also ran on Lasix. Of course, at the time, the DRF did not report Lasix use in the Past Performance lines.
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I have read just about EVERY book on the horse, visited him twice and have corresponded with the owner. WHY would a non-bleeder even need it at all?
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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07-31-2009, 06:25 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Paragould, Arkansas
Posts: 198
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Regarding Secretariat
What a crock of crap from Squires!!!
Anyone who ever saw Secretariat would be in awe of him. I saw him in 1985 and he was just so imposing even 12 years after racing. He was the best balanced horse I had ever seen, even though he had a little bit of femininity. This is probably somewhat a contributor to his status as a Filly or Mare Sire. He has been described phenotypically as his "mother's son".
Dr. Pratt in the PBS program said that Secretariat was nothing but a "Freak".
When a horse has a pump that weighs 23 pounds, that horse does not need any help.
John
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07-31-2009, 12:27 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wyoming, near Yellowstone Park...born/raised in Brooklyn,NY
Posts: 7,557
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by arkansasman
What a crock of crap from Squires!!!
Anyone who ever saw Secretariat would be in awe of him. I saw him in 1985 and he was just so imposing even 12 years after racing. He was the best balanced horse I had ever seen, even though he had a little bit of femininity. This is probably somewhat a contributor to his status as a Filly or Mare Sire. He has been described phenotypically as his "mother's son".
Dr. Pratt in the PBS program said that Secretariat was nothing but a "Freak".
When a horse has a pump that weighs 23 pounds, that horse does not need any help.
John
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 Good post... why this has come up after all these years is beyond me...is someone trying to defend drug use in today's race horse by speculating that the great one's from decades gone by were on drugs...geeze...
this post says it all, really....the big red horse was a freak...the right words to describe his physical stature are hard to find...he was just about perfect, and it's common knowlegde that his way of going was as effcient as they caome and with a heart that big...the horse didn't need any steroids...and Ido not beleive he ever bled...
(now, I just gotta find that PBS video 'Magical Way of Going')
__________________
joanied
"All we have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us"
Gandalf the Grey
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