"Was It Belichick Who Made Brady, or Was It Brady Who Made Belichick?"

[Teach]

I'll begin by posing the title's question: "Was it Bill Belichick who made Tom Brady into the future Hall of Fame quarterback he would become, and, in the process, make the New England Patriots into 'The Powerhouse’ NFL Football team-franchise of the first two decades of the 21st century, or Was it The future Hall of Fame Quarterback, Brady, who made Belichick into the future Hall of Fame coach. That question is one that is often pondered by Patriots’ fans from all over New England.

In my opinion, when it comes to this conundrum, the question as to who was more important, more responsible for the New England Patriots' ascendancy: the quarterback or the coach, Tom Brady or Bill Belichick, I, for one, lean mightily in the direction Brady. Now I’m not saying that this is a zero-sum game. Coach Bill Belichick was very much a factor in the Patriots' winning seasons during those early 21st century decades.

Yet, as I continue, I believe that Brady, at least in my opinion, was the "sine qua non.” Further, I aver that without Tom Brady the Patriots wouldn’t have won 6 Superbowl championships. In the year, 2008, the season that Brady suffered a serious knee injury, the Patriots didn't make the playoffs.

At this juncture, let the facts speak for themselves. During the "Brady Years," the Patriots record was: 232-72, a better than 75% winning percentage. Conversely, Bill Belichick-coached teams, sans Tom Brady (Belichick coached in Cleveland in the early-1990s). After a hiatus, he was named Patriots head-coach in 2000. Belichick's record in his non-Brady years (including Cleveland) is: 66-82 (that also includes the first two 2023-season losses to the Eagles and Dolphins).

As a postscript, in light of the losing record, post Brady, "I ask, "Is it time for Coach Bill Belichick to consider hanging up his clipboard?" Sometimes, as is the case in any profession, the individual in question is often least able to assess when its time to accept “the gold watch.” We, as individuals, may not be able to, as they say, "See the forest for the trees.”

Finally, there’s an old expression that I believe is apt in circumstances such as these: “It's best to leave the stage while they’re still applauding."

[Tor Ekman]

Mo Lewis created the Patriots dynasty

[king kong]

Brady made a run of the mill coach and coaches a ton of money!

[Bustin Stones]

Dan Marino won zero Super Bowls. Was this his fault? Was this his head coach's fault? The measure of a qb success lies in neither. It's the strength of the entire team including the coaches. The likes of Tom Matte once led a team to playoff overtime against the Packers. Genius coaching? Probably not.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Tor Ekman

Mo Lewis created the Patriots dynasty

Without looking it up I am guessing he is the one who injured Drew Bledsoe.


As for the question my opinion is they made each other. Not only were the Patriots the only two decade dynasty, they were the only dynasty in the salary cap era. Here is who I would call the NFL dynasties by decade.


40's Chicago Bears
50's Cleveland Browns
60's Green Bay Packers
70's Pittsburgh Steelers
80's San Francisco 49ers
90's Dallas Cowboy's

00's New England Patriots
10's New England Patriots


In the Super Bowl era all the dynasties had 3 things in common. Owners that treated players like family, great head coaching, and great QB play. It has always been my opinion that when it came to winning championships Hall of Fame quarterbacks are pretty much interchangeable. I truly believe if Dan Marino was a 49er instead of a Dolphin he would have 4 rings, not zero.


Back to the original question, the first 3 Patriot Super Bowl wins were by 3 points, the 4th by 4 points, the 5th went into overtime and the last was the largest margin of victory winning by 10. Also you rarely saw blow out wins on Patriot championship runs, to me that alludes to unmatched coaching excellence. At that point the edge goes to Belichick.


Then Brady goes to Tampa Bay and gets a ring, edge to Brady. Call it a damn tie.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Bustin Stones

Dan Marino won zero Super Bowls. Was this his fault? Was this his head coach's fault? The measure of a qb success lies in neither. It's the strength of the entire team including the coaches. The likes of Tom Matte once led a team to playoff overtime against the Packers. Genius coaching? Probably not.

My mentioning Marino came up before I read your, post, I swear, I swear.
I must have taken and hour plus to write mine, as I kept leaving my desk.
Great minds think alike.

[Bustin Stones]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

My mentioning Marino came up before I read your, post, I swear, I swear.
I must have taken and hour plus to write mine, as I kept leaving my desk.
Great minds think alike.

Following the NFL for 67 years you imagine how many of these debates I've witnessed. And Marino and Jim Kelly are the poster children for these discussions. My bottom line is that the SB is not a proper litmus test for whether a player or coach is great. The Bears had some great defenses that won a championship. We are in an era where it's in vogue to list and compare everything even if it's things from different eras. We want to believe the most recent players are the better ones.
Otto Graham still holds the records for most yds per attempt and game winning percentage in the history. The guy never enters a discussion in comparing the greatest. Most people, including myself, never saw him play.
These discussions are fun, but they settle nothing.

[Jeff P]

Originally Posted by Tor Ekman

Mo Lewis created the Patriots dynasty

I say the NY Jets had a hand in New England's incredible run.

Consider:

ESPN.com
Inside Bill Belichick's resignation as the Jets' coach 20 years ago:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...h-20-years-ago

Moments before he was to be formally introduced as the Jets' coach, he famously scribbled on a sheet of loose-leaf paper that he was resigning as the "HC of the NYJ." He handed it to team officials and conducted a 50-minute news conference that went over like fingernails on a chalkboard.

What happened that day forever changed the Jets, the New England Patriots and the NFL.

Then there's the hit delivered by Jet's player Mo Lewis that sidelined Drew Bledsoe.

Ex-Patriots QB Drew Bledsoe says famous Mo Lewis hit could have killed him:
https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2021/1...him-tom-brady/

Mo Lewis and the Jets are forever tied to Tom Brady’s legacy after the former New York linebacker knocked then-Patriots QB Drew Bledsoe out of a 2001 game between the two teams.

The injury gave rise to Brady’s career in New England, but it effectively ended Bledsoe’s time with the Patriots. Things could have been a lot worse for the veteran, though.

Call it fate if you like.

A lot of pieces had to fall exactly into place to make the New England Patriot's incredible run possible.

Would Belichick have stayed on as an asst coach with the Jets another year or two if Bill Parcells hadn't resigned?

If so, would New England have hired someone other than Belichick as their head coach?

If Mo Lewis had simply shoved Bledsoe out of bounds would Brady have been content to be the backup QB for another few years?

Or would he have asked to be traded?


-jp
.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Bustin Stones

Following the NFL for 67 years you imagine how many of these debates I've witnessed. And Marino and Jim Kelly are the poster children for these discussions. My bottom line is that the SB is not a proper litmus test for whether a player or coach is great. The Bears had some great defenses that won a championship. We are in an era where it's in vogue to list and compare everything even if it's things from different eras. We want to believe the most recent players are the better ones.
Otto Graham still holds the records for most yds per attempt and game winning percentage in the history. The guy never enters a discussion in comparing the greatest. Most people, including myself, never saw him play.
These discussions are fun, but they settle nothing.

I will see your Otto Graham and raise you a Sammy Baugh. Also without a decent defense and running game, those dynasties would not have been dynasties.

[Maximillion]

I agree...when you have a truly great anything like a team, a movie or band album etc. one person often gets most of the credit but it's usually a whole bunch of people on top of their game and challenging each other.