Who was Handicapper of the Year?

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by DeanT

It'd be worse

I like the idea, but it is a horse awards night for owners. I am happy when any handicapper is recognized, and Brian (make no mistake) is an excellent handicapper, contest rules luck or not.

Just so that it is clear, this is incorrect. I understand the need to disagree with some for the sake of disagreeing, but for God's sake, know when it isn't screamingly obvious. Writers are recognized, TV and Radio are recognized, and other non-owners. These are the year end awards in racing. Just because this has been misinterpreted by another poster doesn't mean it is a convenient excuse for you to make the same mistake.

[craig chapman]

I vote for Len Cz. He came out the fabulous handicapping method. "Tailor Made."

[turfnsport]

Originally Posted by the little guy

It's a symbolic gesture to recognize horseplayers, in a setting where they were previously ignored, and the best possible representative is chosen each year, the person that won a handicapping tournament comprised of handicap tournament winners from throughout the year. Nobody, including the winner, is saying this is the best handicapper in the country, but he ( or she ) stands that year for the backbone of this game....the horseplayer.

In addition, if memory serves, a couple of the winners in past years gave pretty good speeches, and it not often that somebody representing horseplayers gets a chance to address the industry.

I think the tournament is a joke, but I think recognizing the winners at the Eclipse Awards is a pretty nice deal for the winners.

[DeanT]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Just so that it is clear, this is incorrect. I understand the need to disagree with some for the sake of disagreeing, but for God's sake, know when it isn't screamingly obvious. Writers are recognized, TV and Radio are recognized, and other non-owners. These are the year end awards in racing. Just because this has been misinterpreted by another poster doesn't mean it is a convenient excuse for you to make the same mistake.

In 1971 at the beginning of these awards (which were in name only as I am sure you know) some media was added, TV later (I think 1975). Awards like these have always been steeped in the tradition of honoring Bloodstock and their breeders and owners. That is what I was referring to.

To bring it more mainstream they have added things like TV and the handicapper of the year. But that has always been a sideshow, as compared to the honor bestowed the horses and those who bred them and own them.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by DeanT

In 1971 at the beginning of these awards (which were in name only as I am sure you know) some media was added, TV later (I think 1975). Awards like these have always been steeped in the tradition of honoring Bloodstock and their breeders and owners. That is what I was referring to.

To bring it more mainstream they have added things like TV and the handicapper of the year. But that has always been a sideshow, as compared to the honor bestowed the horses and those who bred them and own them.

I already explained that the awards represent others in the industry outside of owners, but I appreciate your now backing that up even further. Your editorializing doesn't change that these awards recognize many in the industry, and not just owners. I am sorry you don't think that horseplayers should be recognized at the Eclipse Awards. We can agree to disagree about this.

[DeanT]

Originally Posted by the little guy

I already explained that the awards represent others in the industry outside of owners, but I appreciate your now backing that up even further. Your editorializing doesn't change that these awards recognize many in the industry, and not just owners. I am sorry you don't think that horseplayers should be recognized at the Eclipse Awards. We can agree to disagree about this.

Why is it such a struggle to have a respectful conversation Andy?

I was acquiescing to some of the previous posters points that this night is horse and owner focused. I believe they do have a point. I also said I do enjoy they have a handicapper in the mix (knowing they have others as well like media). That is all I said. I don't know why that is such a big deal.

[Bobzilla]

Every year there are over a 100,000 attempts to earn a berth to the DRF/NTRA NHC. Every year we see many of the same names competing in this event (Shuman, Gutfreund, Gallo, etc.etc.). It's true that some have the time and money to participate in more qualifying events than others, thus improving their chances of being there. But considering the total number of attempts per year even 25 tp 30 shots by a single player probably doesn't increase their chances all that much if not for the presence of superior handicapping skill and contest saavy.

Brian Troop had been there before and had performed well. In 2010 he had the skill to put himself into position to maybe get a little lucky. Whenever any of us have a good day a certain degree of luck would have been involved as there is always so much that can go wrong. Brian Troop hit 4 of his 8 mandatory plays at win prices of $21.60; $25.40; $24.80 and $8.00. He nailed 2 of his 7 other picks at win prices of $39.60 and $26.40. He also had a 20:1 come close who paid $17.20 to place. I can honestly say I've never had a day that even remotely resembles this kind of performance. What's also impressive is that none of these payouts were so ridiculously high that they were capped.

Truly, what are the statistical chances somebody coud be "lucky" enough to qualify for the event in multiple years and then, during one of the two days out of the year that the contest happens to be held, be lucky enough to hit with these kind of scores without a serious amount of handicapping experience and accumen? At least 10 of the 11 past winners have made it back during a year oher than their automatic entry the year following a champioship. It's not easy to do. It shouldn't be. But some do and they're pretty darn sharp people.

Personally I'd prefer to see the format of the NHC changed myself. At the same time I certainly wouldn't hesitate at all to bet all I own on who I suspect the author behind post#14 is on this thread against anyone who clearly hasn't thought this through enough as to refer to the event as nothing more than a "lottery" or "throwing darts". The consistency of too many from year to year says otherwise.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by DeanT

Why is it such a struggle to have a respectful conversation Andy?

Because I respect you enough not to believe that you really believe in your responses here. I believe you have an issue of responding based on the participants, in some cases, and not the issue at hand.

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW

Consider?

If someone picks 4 4-1 winners in a row (which is a 624-1 chance), he is behind someone who picks a 25-1 (which is a 25-1 chance) and also has 3 less picks remaining.

It's kinda like a golf tournament only counting hole-in-ones.....A bowling tournament only counting 7-10 split conversions.....A poker tournament only playing 20 hands to completion......A football game being decided by the coin toss......etc.

Crapshoot is when the format requires that the only possible winning strategy is to do something other than what the entire contest is based on.

I would completely agree, except that the same names tend to pop up on leaderboards- and wind up in the finals-year after year. There is no denying that certain contestants sure have a knack for those hole in ones.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Originally Posted by mountainman

I would completely agree, except that the same names tend to pop up on leaderboards- and wind up in the finals-year after year. There is no denying that certain contestants sure have a knack for those hole in ones.

That's because there are a few people that seem to devote a ton of energy to it and play in almost every contest they have across the nation and online.

Also, when it comes down to it, at least half of all entrants in these contests have no chance to win due to strategical incompetence. I would say about 20% at any regular contest have a chance to win and about 50% at the finals have a chance strategically.

[GatetoWire]

Bottom line is that Brian Troop is a dedicated horseplayer, great handicapper and really nice guy.

We should be applauding that he had a day that many of us dream about.....a true life changing event.

Give him an Eclipse award....The DRF contest is our WOSP and he won fair and square. To try to dissect his picks and point to luck is really shallow.

Horseplayers get very little press or respect.....don't rain on Brian's parade when we finally get 5 min in the sun.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Originally Posted by the little guy

OK, so what is your alternative? Should this person not be honored because of the timing?

An awful lot of misplaced, and unnecessary, griping if you ask me. There is plenty wrong but this sure doesn't seem like one of those cases. If you look hard enough you can find fault with just about anything.

I think they should move the final tournament up a few weeks, maybe the early weekend of the Eclipse Awards. Ideally, I would liked to have caught up this year and honor both the 2010 and 2011 winner in Jan 2011 (tournament too late, eclipse awards already out. Or alight the dates better, Brian Troop qualified in 2009, won the final in 2010. Is he really handicapper of 2010 or 2009? He's good, he won, let's honor him, but such a long delay.

I only thought about all this since the issue came up on the board. Not a big issue with me, but yes, we knew his about Jan 2010 win long enough for many of us to completely forget, and wonder about if he did or didn't get mentioned at the awards banquet 11 months after his win. It just seems that, if you're going to award an Eclispe Award, and hope it brings recognition, then that would be better off a fresh win.

[Steve 'StatMan']

If I recall correctly, one big reason the contest is held when it is, is that it is the week between the NFL Conference Championships and the Super Bowl. Therefore the original sports book/Casino hosts, and future sports books/Casino hosts, had a open weekend they would likely want to fill - rather than sooner in January with all the NFL action during the playoffs. Might also have occured before they gave out Eclipse Awards to the winner.

[Cardus]

To anyone who wins a tournament, I think that it is terrific.

I am not a tournament player, but I applaud those who can win against a few hundred players who are operating under the same rules.

Why throw cold water on it? It doesn't make sense to me at all.

And why throw cold water on the person who originated the award? Makes lesser sense to me.

[JustRalph]

A few hundred players would be nice. In the big ones, you can multiply by 10, those are real tough ones.