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12-14-2009, 09:52 PM
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#106
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headhawg
This is your last warning or I will have to taunt you a second time.
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I laughed!
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12-14-2009, 10:26 PM
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#107
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crusty old guy
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Snarkytown USA
Posts: 3,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
This isn't really about my program,so all the compliments and derisions are irrelevant. This is about YOUR program. I am pointing something out that is basic to ANY program. Are you that close minded?
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Yes. I am that close-minded. Handifast sucks. It could never, ever work. It is full of completely flawed algorithms that couldn't pick the winner of a one horse race. Anyone that is using it should just STOP because...well...because Light said so.
All users can return their copy for a full refund of the purchase price. And while you're at it, immediately return any monies gained from its use to the proper track, OTB or ADW.
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12-14-2009, 10:36 PM
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#108
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crusty old guy
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Snarkytown USA
Posts: 3,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
I laughed!
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Perhaps Light is a silly English k-nig-ht!
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12-14-2009, 10:57 PM
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#109
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BarelyWinning
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 2,828
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Sorry Head, but I am collecting the monies gained by the use of this program which is to be returned. The tracks would just waste it, if they even knew what to do with it.
I must say I don't really understand why Light even comes to this thread!
Handi
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12-14-2009, 11:13 PM
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#110
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crusty old guy
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Snarkytown USA
Posts: 3,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handiman
I must say I don't really understand why Light even comes to this thread!
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Not for any constructive reasons, that's for sure. I used to get angry about his interjections but now I just find his posts kind of pathetic, really. I mean, why get so up-in-arms about something that one considers to be garbage?
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12-14-2009, 11:22 PM
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#111
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handiman
I must say I don't really understand why Light even comes to this thread!
Handi
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I give up. You win. I was only relating to what you are doing because its what I've been doing for the last 9 years with my program. You guys get more hung up on the way I express myself instead of what I am saying.
I didnt mean to put you down when I say you have a flaw. I meant in my experience with my similar program, paceline selection cannot be overemphasized. I found if that's wrong then everything will follow wrongly and if its right everything will align that way.It's crucial.
I think what you guys are doing is great. I find with my own program,it can compete with anything out there that costs alot of money. I think you guys can build a free quality program as well,except ...you're not listening. I wont interrupt anymore.
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12-15-2009, 07:54 AM
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#112
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
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Light, you included a 7th rank horse that paid $45, and a 3 rd rank horse that paid $14 in your figs.
How does that work?? Double check your totals.
Code:
3 $14.80 $14.80
7 $45.60 $45.60
Now.......
from your posted spreadsheet. Using ONLY the top ranked horse in HandiFast vs your top ranked horse.
Code:
Handi Yours
21.4 0
0 0
0 0
10.4 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 8
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
7.3 0
3.1 0
4.1 0
0 5.1
46.3 13.1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
hcap, I saw your findings and I have an even better ROI using my program as a black box from about the same # of starters,20%. But as you know that sample is too small and may not hold up in time for either program.
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I agree, but you did just post 17 races.
You chose 17 races, so I will post 17. BTW, I use the Top Fair Odds horse
Some results taken from a study at Belmont. 17 races No maidens
Top Fair Odds horse from HandiFast. (Which is what I found profitable all by itself. Over 250 races)
17 races
Won 8/17
Total won $59.6
75% roi
0
0
0
5.8
5.3
3.8
3
0
4.1
0
0
8.4
0
11.8
17.4
0
0
.................................................. .................................................. ..........
All turf races in my sample. Provided 46 plays.
From 4 tracks. Bel, Crc Wox and Osa
Only thing I added to the top Fair Odds horse is that the horse
must be even or an overlay on the morning line
WIN%
30.4%
ROI
63.3%
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12-15-2009, 09:57 AM
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#113
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crusty old guy
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Snarkytown USA
Posts: 3,919
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The point of all of this should be to simply decide if Handifast fits into your handicapping style. As with everything 'capping, it's going to work for some people and not others. The programmers have always tried to incorporate users' suggestions in order to improve the program. It probably does more things and does them better in its current state than many programs that you could buy (or maybe that you have already purchased).
To tell the truth, I was skeptical about Handifast having value as a tool. I didn't even download the early versions of the program. When Handi needed some help I happened to know how to fix some of the problems. While I testing the code I found that some of the ratings and the Top 4 horses were leading to some nice payoffs. There are certain ratings that are real good by themselves and in combination they can work even better. And if you've been keeping up with the Handifast threads, you've read that other users have found similar things as well. And hcap has been nice enough to share his findings albeit with a small sample of races.
For those of you enjoying Handifast again I say thanks for the compliments. For others who find no use for it that's ok too. Just keep your insults and negativity out of these threads. Happy Holidays.
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12-15-2009, 02:04 PM
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#114
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EXCEL with SUPERFECTAS
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 10,206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headhawg
The point of all of this should be to simply decide if Handifast fits into your handicapping style. As with everything 'capping, it's going to work for some people and not others. The programmers have always tried to incorporate users' suggestions in order to improve the program. It probably does more things and does them better in its current state than many programs that you could buy (or maybe that you have already purchased).
To tell the truth, I was skeptical about Handifast having value as a tool. I didn't even download the early versions of the program. When Handi needed some help I happened to know how to fix some of the problems. While I testing the code I found that some of the ratings and the Top 4 horses were leading to some nice payoffs. There are certain ratings that are real good by themselves and in combination they can work even better. And if you've been keeping up with the Handifast threads, you've read that other users have found similar things as well. And hcap has been nice enough to share his findings albeit with a small sample of races.
For those of you enjoying Handifast again I say thanks for the compliments. For others who find no use for it that's ok too. Just keep your insults and negativity out of these threads. Happy Holidays.
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Well said!!
You guys have gone much further with your program than I intend (or ever intended) to go with AllData PPs.
My main purpose, for making AllData PPs available, is to make all the data fields, in the Bris/TSN data files, available inside the spreadsheet, for users to use as they see fit. And to offer a simple method for importing that data and using it, via macros.
Another purpose is to show "some" of the power Excel has to offer and ways the user can format the data for presentation. My auto-paceline selection method is an extra, available for those who want to use it, however, it can be over-ridden, by the user manually selecting individual pacelines. Or the user can simply modify or add to what I have done and am currently working on.
That is another purpose for the spreadsheet, to introduce users to most of the basic, as well as, some of the more advanced capabilities in Excel.
My ultimate hope is that less knowledgeable Excel users will be able to look at my formulas, macros, formatting, etc., and use them as examples for their own work.
I'm no Excel guru, by any means, but I believe there's some good stuff in the spreadsheet that might be of use to others.
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12-15-2009, 05:59 PM
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#115
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: orange,texas
Posts: 133
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handi's work
great job for what you have done hope you feel better. what is the last ver. of you software and are there any instruction on line, i would like to know more about it.did i unstand right it can no do 6 tracks live .
keep up the good work
permenbg
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12-15-2009, 08:06 PM
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#116
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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hcap
The way I scored those Excel spreadsheets I posted was NOT based on top ranked horse but which program had the winner ranked higher than the other. So out of 17 races over the weekend at Aqu, my program had the winner ranked higher than Handi's or HH's 8 times and Handi's or HH's had the winner ranked higher than mine 4 times. There were 5 ties. Whoever had the higher rank got the winning muteul. In case of ties,each side got zero.
The point of this little experiment was not to elevate my ego as some think. It was to show the benefits of using my paceline selection method over the one being used. I have struggled with paceline selction methods for the 9 years I have been dealing with my program. After 7 years I found I had to change a fundemental way of picking pacelines. Today I still struggle with it.Since paceline input affects all output it's not something to take lightly.
The other advantage I was going to mention if I ever got to first base here which I didn't,was that with my method you can database your results and get an idea of what works for what class. For example a race is for OC50Kn2x. What class of race are the horses coming out of that win this condition. Very easy to find out in my method because I use a single paceline. With the method used in the program(s) presented here you'll never be able to tell because it uses as many as 6 pacelines averaged together from different distances and surfaces. I find that a bit insane and non productive for databasing. And have you ever did a test of what paceline method does better than the other? I have and I have never heard of any endorsement for the one used in this program being offered. What evidence is there for its validity?
In the other portion of your message you confused where I got the 20% ROI from my program as a black box. It was not related to anything I have presented here. My program also produces various categories,about 16. One of them is the total "points" a horse earns from these 16 categories. Using the top "point" earner in that category is what produced the 20% ROI. The top "point" horse is not necessarily the top "speed fig" horse. Sometimes,he is surprisingly the last ranked speed horse.
I was willing to share some of the ideas from my program here but this is a very close minded group who considers another point of view negatively. I haven't even scratched the surface of what I've been though with my program.But at this point, I'm done trying to explain anything further to these guys. Hey,they got users showing them how they hit $18k supers and mammouth pick 6's with this free program. This is similar to the BS I heard with TLG. When you do a study of what they are talking about,it's just not true.
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12-15-2009, 08:52 PM
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#117
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BarelyWinning
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 2,828
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Light,
Please take this in the best light. I have been programming for 20 years. Mostly horse racing for my own pleasure. But I have written programs for people all over the country also.
Many programs were based on paceline selection, doing it multiple ways. So If I was interested in adding paceline selection that would be no problem. I choose not too.
But what this reply is all about, is the fact that what we are doing here is completely in the open. There is no hidden agenda here. The program is open source...the program is free. I have spent a lot of my time working on it and doing it for nothing, nada, zip zero. And I am doing it in Ill health, with an extremely bad heart. I am 100% disabled.
So for you to come here with a crappy attitude and make me feel bad sucks. But I will buck up and tell you that you are free to have the source code and then find someone who can program in Liberty Basic and add paceline selection to the program and then post it here.
If you can improve our little program, then shut the hell up and DO IT!!!! Quit flapping your lips and wanking your jaws and get with it. We are open to anything. You really want to help then jump in and get something done!
We will show you anything....The end product....the source code...hell you can even see my underwear if you want. We have nothing to hide.
But you wrap yourself up in secrecy and blind claims. If you don't have something positive to share then you are wasting your time and ours. Once again we are open to anything, but we expect people to put their money where their mouth is and not come here, spread hot air about their super duper terrific program....and then keep it all a secret.
So please join in and get some work done or go help someone else. Because we aren't gaining anything from your pseudo help.
Respectfuly,
Handi
Last edited by Handiman; 12-15-2009 at 08:53 PM.
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12-15-2009, 09:40 PM
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#118
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,912
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Handiman
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12-15-2009, 10:03 PM
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#119
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Pinellas Park, Fla & Phoenix Az.
Posts: 389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handiman
Light,
Please take this in the best light. I have been programming for 20 years. Mostly horse racing for my own pleasure. But I have written programs for people all over the country also.
Many programs were based on paceline selection, doing it multiple ways. So If I was interested in adding paceline selection that would be no problem. I choose not too.
But what this reply is all about, is the fact that what we are doing here is completely in the open. There is no hidden agenda here. The program is open source...the program is free. I have spent a lot of my time working on it and doing it for nothing, nada, zip zero. And I am doing it in Ill health, with an extremely bad heart. I am 100% disabled.
So for you to come here with a crappy attitude and make me feel bad sucks. But I will buck up and tell you that you are free to have the source code and then find someone who can program in Liberty Basic and add paceline selection to the program and then post it here.
If you can improve our little program, then shut the hell up and DO IT!!!! Quit flapping your lips and wanking your jaws and get with it. We are open to anything. You really want to help then jump in and get something done!
We will show you anything....The end product....the source code...hell you can even see my underwear if you want. We have nothing to hide.
But you wrap yourself up in secrecy and blind claims. If you don't have something positive to share then you are wasting your time and ours. Once again we are open to anything, but we expect people to put their money where their mouth is and not come here, spread hot air about their super duper terrific program....and then keep it all a secret.
So please join in and get some work done or go help someone else. Because we aren't gaining anything from your pseudo help.
Respectfuly,
Handi
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I agree with Dave..Handi you are a class act
__________________
Cliff Smith
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12-15-2009, 10:08 PM
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#120
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Once/Always
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Posts: 738
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Handiman -- What Dave Said
Handiman -- I second what Dave said.
While I have no interest in the approach you guys are taking, I am enjoying watching the progress of your collaboration. In the old days when IT was known as DP, we called what you are doing "egoless programming". This type of programming/development is quite rare and folks like Light will never understand it.
Keep up the good work.
__________________
Warren
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The most important software is between your ears
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