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Old 09-24-2018, 02:49 PM   #61
castaway01
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You beg the question as to what substance is. Having spent a small amount of time with Matt while I was leaching a seat in his dad's box at Del Mar, I would say that he has great handicapping knowledge and a passion for racing that rivals Beyer's. So in my view it would come down to style. If somebody is giving me good information I can overlook their style.
You could also ask the question of why people don't respect the information Matt is giving, considering they've had so many years to get used to his style on air. Personally I'm neutral on him---I don't watch much TVG these days but if I put it on I don't mute it or anything---but do you think people are just so biased against his intrusive, chatty style that they're not noticing the info he's giving out?
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Old 09-24-2018, 03:00 PM   #62
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You beg the question as to what substance is. Having spent a small amount of time with Matt while I was leaching a seat in his dad's box at Del Mar, I would say that he has great handicapping knowledge and a passion for racing that rivals Beyer's. So in my view it would come down to style. If somebody is giving me good information I can overlook their style.
The most I can do here is relate things as I see them...from my own point of view. I've never sat anywhere near Matt at Del Mar...but I know for a fact that I would have MUCH rather chosen to sit with BEYER. I am glad that Matt seems equally "substantial" to you...and I will endeavor to add this fact to my list of the REST of the horse-related things that you and I are in disagreement about.
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Old 09-24-2018, 03:16 PM   #63
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The most I can do here is relate things as I see them...from my own point of view. I've never sat anywhere near Matt at Del Mar...but I know for a fact that I would have MUCH rather chosen to sit with BEYER. I am glad that Matt seems equally "substantial" to you...and I will endeavor to add this fact to my list of the REST of the horse-related things that you and I are in disagreement about.
In my mind comparing the two is like comparing Stephen Hawking and Sheldon Cooper.

As someone that has sat at the racetrack with Andy, for me personally, there is nobody else that could come close to matching that experience. However, if not for Andy's books I'd probably be selling shoes. The only impact Matt has made on me is maybe breaking a pen or something.
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Old 09-24-2018, 03:20 PM   #64
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I will add that Matt has been doing basically the same job for 20 years. Whether you like his style or not, he still brings it enthusiastically day after day and you have to give him credit for that.
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:05 PM   #65
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It can't be easy being loquacious for four straight hours. That being said, I appreciate someone who appears genuine.


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Old 09-24-2018, 10:50 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
The most I can do here is relate things as I see them...from my own point of view. I've never sat anywhere near Matt at Del Mar...but I know for a fact that I would have MUCH rather chosen to sit with BEYER. I am glad that Matt seems equally "substantial" to you...and I will endeavor to add this fact to my list of the REST of the horse-related things that you and I are in disagreement about.
You certainly read a lot into my response. I was not making a case of one over another, just a case that Matt is not without substance with regard to his handicapping knowledge. I did not choose to sit with one over the other and I made no comment about anybody being equally "substantial". I said that Matt has passion that I think rivals Beyer's.

If the "facts" that you might disagree with me are derived by the methodology shown in your post above then you are disagreeing with fiction.

Last edited by AndyC; 09-24-2018 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:31 PM   #67
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You certainly read a lot into my response. I was not making a case of one over another, just a case that Matt is not without substance with regard to his handicapping knowledge. I did not choose to sit with one over the other and I made no comment about anybody being equally "substantial". I said that Matt has passion that I think rivals Beyer's.

If the "facts" that you might disagree with me are derived by the methodology shown in your post above then you are disagreeing with fiction.
All I was doing in my reply to Pandy, which you responded to, was disagreeing with his opinion that Beyer is very boring on TV. Pandy said that the televised Beyer makes paint-watching exciting...and that strongly contradicts my own opinion of him. I made no mention of Matt in my post to Pandy...nor had I mentioned Matt anywhere else in this thread. Now...if you agree with Pandy that Beyer is excruciatingly boring on TV, then argue with me on THAT! Don't argue with me about something that I never said. I never questioned Matt's "passion" for the game...nor did I refute that his passion for the game equals that of Beyer's.

I said that Beyer has SUBSTANCE...and you countered by questioning me on what I meant by that. And then you brought the Beyer/Carothers comparison into the discussion. Did that have anything to do with the "substance" that I talked about? Do you really need me to define what "substance" means, for you? When Carothers talks handicapping...does what he says have the same "substance" as when BEYER addresses the topic?

Tell me what you are disagreeing with me about...and then I'll argue with you.

Last edited by thaskalos; 09-24-2018 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:49 PM   #68
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Tell me what you are disagreeing with me about...and then I'll argue with you.
I'm so stealing this for a few trolls on Facebook.
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Old 09-25-2018, 12:13 AM   #69
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Guys, please don't respond to posts that are pretty obviously going to be red carded and / or deleted. It just makes that many more posts that have to be deleted. By all means report posts like that so moderators don't just happen to stumble onto them.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-25-2018, 01:20 AM   #70
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All I was doing in my reply to Pandy, which you responded to, was disagreeing with his opinion that Beyer is very boring on TV. Pandy said that the televised Beyer makes paint-watching exciting...and that strongly contradicts my own opinion of him. I made no mention of Matt in my post to Pandy...nor had I mentioned Matt anywhere else in this thread. Now...if you agree with Pandy that Beyer is excruciatingly boring on TV, then argue with me on THAT! Don't argue with me about something that I never said. I never questioned Matt's "passion" for the game...nor did I refute that his passion for the game equals that of Beyer's.

I said that Beyer has SUBSTANCE...and you countered by questioning me on what I meant by that. And then you brought the Beyer/Carothers comparison into the discussion. Did that have anything to do with the "substance" that I talked about? Do you really need me to define what "substance" means, for you? When Carothers talks handicapping...does what he says have the same "substance" as when BEYER addresses the topic?

Tell me what you are disagreeing with me about...and then I'll argue with you.
I apologize if you were not referring to Matt in the following: "My "entertainment" comes from the genuine handicapping knowledge that the hosts possess...and the sincerity with which they relay it to the viewer. Beyer has SUBSTANCE...and I'll take that over "style" ANY day!" Seeing how the thread is about Matt you can certainly understand my confusion. No?

I still would like to know what you mean by "substance" when referring to what Beyer brings. I am not saying he doesn't bring "substance" whatever that may mean but you imply that it is something that others don't bring.
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Old 09-25-2018, 05:15 AM   #71
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Sorry that my post got deleted. I thought I was being nice compared to what I could say.

But explaining the whole story---

About a year ago, during Saratoga, I decided I was gonna set up a twitter account and track the TVG "experts" plays. We all know they suck, but I wanted to see just how much they suck. Keep in mind, I wasnt being a dick about it--- I wasnt trying to make enemies, I just wanted to track the results.

Well, when they were very predictably bad, I got a lot of heat from people at TVG- between the on air personalities and the producers. Alot of people messaging me, alot of people giving me excuses about bankroll limitations, etc. But the bottom line- Everyone but a few did HORRIBLY. Thats fine.. I expected the backlash.

Some people were sooo gracious, and actually said they liked me tracking the results- Dave Weaver, Meghan Devine, the dude who announces at Pompano, etc. etc. Basically, the people who enjoy handicapping and are in it for the right reasons.

At the same time, I interact with these guys in real life. They are all accessible when they are at the track. Some wanna talk, some dont.

My friend calls me one day... they are talking shit about you on the air. Mike Joyce and Todd Schrupp.... absolutely rag on me, saying I have no life, etc.

Most of the TVG guys blocked me just for posting the results. I talked to Joaquin at Saratoga and he told me some people were real upset/bothered by the postings.

Well... on twitter, Mike Joyce continues to trash me. We've been going back and forth for a year now-- He defended the guy who beat up the horses at Delaware... he defended the jockey situation at GP with Rajiv's family, saying he didn't deserve the suspension. He just doesn't care about the horses or the integrity of the sport. Often times, we interact and its reasonable---usually starts with him defending himself cause he is just on the air "cause of how handsome he is", and ends with agreeing to disagree.



Fast forward to this month, and a horse that I am very fond of (Bunyaan) needs help. He was running 30K claimers at Belmont and even won a race in April. In the beginning of May, he clearly got hurt in a race at Belmont and got pulled up 1/4 in the mile. EVer since that race, Persaud ran him once and then just gave him away to a low level trainer at Finger Lakes. At Finger Lakes, he has been running 5K claimers--- He has beaten 1 horse total in his last 5 races. Hes not okay... He is hurt, and doesnt want to run anymore.

I am ttrying to get him help--- I reach out to people in the industry who can help me get him a good home. The trainer said I could buy him from him for $1000, but the vet costs would be too much for me. I went on twitter for help.

I ask Mike nicely 3 times if he can just retweet it for me.. That Bunyaan needs our help and needs to find a good home to be retired. He ignored me and than blocked me.

I can insult him and argue back and forth with him for a year, and he doesnt block me, but the second I ask for the help for a horses well being, he blocked me.

Shows his true colors and what he really cares about ($$$)
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Old 09-25-2018, 11:06 AM   #72
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So you want to save a horse (very noble) so instead of going to people like the Thoroughbred Aftercare Alliance or an accredited rescue for help, you go to a TVG personality that you have had a checkered past with. That makes no sense.
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Old 09-25-2018, 02:03 PM   #73
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Old 09-25-2018, 02:07 PM   #74
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So you want to save a horse (very noble) so instead of going to people like the Thoroughbred Aftercare Alliance or an accredited rescue for help, you go to a TVG personality that you have had a checkered past with. That makes no sense.

Ive contacted literally everyone I can.... including every aftercare organization in the northeast. Most are not willing to spend the $1000+ to buy him.

The more people that see it, the better chance of getting help. Everyone else I contacted retweeted it or replied.... Mike Joyce has 10k+ followers. That would have been 10K more people that saw it. If you are in the game of horse racing, you should want to help a horse who is being run into the ground.
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Old 09-25-2018, 03:16 PM   #75
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Mike Joyce is VERY high on the list of "good guys ( and gals )" in racing.
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