RIP to Mongolian Groom and CA Racing

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Southbaygent

Same here, loved it...did well handicapping it. Always enjoyed the San Juan Capistrano marathon that started at the top.

But if it’s bad for the horses I’m good with being done with it. Also, watched WAY too many horses “flinch” at the dirt track crossover. Made me flinch too.

The Capistrano isn't going anywhere. With the glorious exception of John Henry, who won wire to wire after going 3/4's in 1:09 and change, nobody hits the dirt at top speed in that race.

[Racetrack Playa]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

"bleeders list" d

Click one of the following links to access a list of bleeders for a particular time frame.

http://khrc.ky.gov/Pages/EquineHealth.aspx
http://khrc.ky.gov/Documents/Bleeders%202019.pdf

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by horsefan2019

Well thats a shame. Part of what made turf races at Santa Anita unique was the hillside turf course. But I understand why they are doing it if they are doing a complete overhaul of safety at the track.

I'll miss it also, but I'm also supportive of eliminating it if it will cut down on injuries.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by cj

If we truly have to give horses a drug before racing for safety, racing is doomed.

If a horse truly needs a drug before running for less than 2 minutes, the species would never have made it beyond the microbial stage.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

I think everyone knows that a more healthy racing would be shutting down every track which can’t stand on its own.

As for jobs, they’ll be found elsewhere (and as you said, in whatever replaces tracks). I don’t agree with subsidies for non-essential things, which horse racing is certainly not.

At least they are receiving subsidies from something that is also absolutely unnecessary.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

There’s plenty out there if you want to Google.

I don't have to google.

I have followed certain trainers my entire racing life, and can reel you off the names of many who are renown the world over, who don't use lasix on raceday.

That's good enough for me.




If you have to use google to have an opinion, then so be it. Your article, BTW, doesn't explain the levels of bleeding and which levels actually need to be treated. A group that would require salix before every race would be designated "not fit for career at race track" in most racing jurisdictions on the rest of the planet.

saying all horses bleed is like saying most people who drink a cup of strong black coffee will show a measuredincrease in acid and a loosening of their esophageal muscles (which they will, just as they would from eating chocolate) ------- yet only a very small % of people will actually develop any esophageal damage (GERD) as a result. So they probably don't even have to preceed the coffee with a TUMS or proton pump inhibitor.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by clicknow

I don't have to google.

I have followed certain trainers my entire racing life, and can reel you off the names of many who are renown the world over, who don't use lasix on raceday.

That's good enough for me.




If you have to use google to have an opinion, then so be it. Your article, BTW, doesn't explain the levels of bleeding and which levels actually need to be treated. A group that would require salix before every race would be designated "not fit for career at race track" in most racing jurisdictions on the rest of the planet.

saying all horses bleed is like saying most people who drink a cup of strong black coffee will show a measuredincrease in acid and a loosening of their esophageal muscles (which they will, just as they would from eating chocolate) ------- yet only a very small % of people will actually develop any esophageal damage (GERD) as a result. So they probably don't even have to preceed the coffee with a TUMS or proton pump inhibitor.

You can believe some trainers, and I’ll believe science and facts.

Tell me again why you’re against a drug that is the most humane way to treat a horse, which has no negative effects on the horse and doesn’t mask illegal drugs? Just because?

I used to be like you, thinking that Lasix needed to go. Then I considered why I thought this, and I had zero explanation for why it’d be best for the horses. Taking away the Lasix from the good trainers and top horses will be managed (though some will have to be retired). However there is a huge population of horses who are trained by not only inept trainers but ones who don’t give a sh** about their horses. They wring the very last drop out of them. I don’t have any doubt that they’ll abuse their horses in trying to make up for no Lasix, and I have no doubt they couldn’t care less if they send out a horse who could bleed out. It’s those horses I’m concerned about, because there’s no one holding those trainers accountable or protecting those horses. The commissions are for most part jokes, and they won’t implement protections for these horses on bleeding if they won’t do anything about them being sent to slaughter or being tapped and raced until their joints are destroyed. So these horses will be the victims of this policy, and they don’t need an additional way to be victimized.

[Robert Fischer]

someone stick a fork in this thread




you guys aren't competent with lasix admistration and it's effects on equine health, or performance, or anything else lasix related

(both sides of this 'debate'/migraine/thread-drift)

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

If a horse truly needs a drug before running for less than 2 minutes, the species would never have made it beyond the microbial stage.

Yeah, how did American Eclipse ever run all those 4 mile heats?

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

A few more months of this turmoil, any mention will be moot

I thought since Hong Kong was brought up a few times in this topic, and before the topic ends, it would be appropriate to mention that the people of Hong Kong voted and won in a landslide for pro-democracy candidates.......took 90% of the seats. I felt very supportive of them not wanting to be re-aborbed into a totally communist state when they have been able to enjoy a quasi-democracy in their city .

I hope everything works out for them, and that Hong Kong racing continues, un-affected. I know @Nitro is probably relieved as well.

[bob60566]

Intresting article and makes sense.

Yes, all this would change North American racing. It would be slightly different, but it would be modernized, more progressive, more sanitized, and more virtuous than it is now.

https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/a...ed-harm-horse/

[delsully]

If it’s not too much trouble, does anyone have the breakdown stats on the downhill vs the regular turf?

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by delsully

If it’s not too much trouble, does anyone have the breakdown stats on the downhill vs the regular turf?

From the Jockey Club's Equine Injury Database reporting for calendar years 2009-2018 ten year totals:





course starts / died / rate

main turf: 15,593 / 36 / 2.31

downhill: 10,809 / 31 / 2.87


The two worst turf courses among those making their data public.

[GMB@BP]

what is the rate? when you work out the percentages its 0.286%, which is very low in my opinion.

the difference is 5 horses over 10,000 starts. I mean, feels very acceptable to me.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

what is the rate? when you work out the percentages its 0.286%, which is very low in my opinion.

the difference is 5 horses over 10,000 starts. I mean, feels very acceptable to me.

routes(most of the 'main turf' races in the past) to sprints(most of the downhill).

majority being hard urged from the gate, and a faster pace is going to be more taxing


cheaper horses (and possibly bigger fields as well / maiden-claimers etc) on the downhill??


I don't have the stats in front of me, and perhaps they are counter-intuitive,


but it would not surprise if difference was negligible, w/ 'normalized' stats