The DQ (or non-DQ) complaint thread

[ScottJ]

Some follow-up from the decision-making in Race 9 (NYSS $500k Purse) on Saturday, December 16th, 2023.

[1] Hello, Was Anyone Home? - According to information which has admittedly not been validated from a second source, a report is circulating that Javier Castellano's foul claim was not received by the NYRA Stewards. I am hopeful that this must be incorrect as he was central to the "phone discussions" which must have taken place. On ADATR, you saw Castellano speaking with folks in the paddock and he was certainly more animated than you normally see him. Similarly, Tom Morley was seen and very mad about the head of the stretch incident one would assume. The story states that The Big Torpedo was squeezed inside by Antonio of Venice and outside by Solo's Fury.

[2] Was There a Question? - See the NYRA Steward's Page at https://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/racing...rds-decisions/. Once again, a failure to force the steward's to communicate their decision has effectively undermined the stewarding function as Race 9 is not discussed on the web site. Just another example of rigor and transparency in stewardship. Surely, just another "oversight" despite the fact that Race 8 appeared within 30 minutes of that investigation.

In closing, the NYRA Stewards are Samantha Randazzo (appointed by The Jockey Club, November 2022), Braulio Baeza, Jr., (appointed by NYSGC, October 2019, previously the NYRA appointed steward), and (Brook Hawkins appointed by the NYRA, November 2019 replacing Baeza). Ask yourself when you believe that the stewardship became murky and these dates will start to resonate. A complete removal of those on the steward's stand is needed to restore confidence in the game's officiation and if this requires HISA involvement, so be it.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Regarding #2. As a Steward who never rode I always valued speaking to the riders. Of course I expect them to advocate for their cause. However, I would often look at things from a different perspective based on what they'd say.

Let me say first, thank you for responding. My response is not personal, but underscores your presented argument as weak stewardship.

Your job as a steward is to adjudicate the rules and use the video evidence of the "actual plays", the race itself, to determine if the rules were violated. That's it. No where in that remit does a conversation with a jockey alter the rules or the video evidence.

What is most bothersome is that a built-in bias is introduced in jockey conversations where the steward's might offer more support to a case offered by a jockey in the steward's native language - for example.

If you want to use that information to determine jockey penalties the next day, fine, but that is not what the placing decision should involve.

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Film review, especially when the clock is ticking, can be very tough.

Stop offering the "it's a tough job" defense. You took the damned job and you cash the paycheck. How can you play the "clock is ticking" card? Football, hockey, baseball, and basketball can all manage to get video reviews completed inside 3 minutes on equally complex rules decisions; that involves typically interfacing with a remote video crew. These NYRA stewards had 15 minutes to get it right and missed - twice.

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I was one of the slowest Stewards in history. I always wanted to look at it just one more time to be sure I didn't miss something. Which still happened. I'd see more things when I got home or in riders film review the next morning.

This demonstrates your waffling in the steward's stand which shows us, the betting public, that you actually do not understand the rules which you are adjudicating.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Regarding #2. As a Steward who never rode I always valued speaking to the riders. Of course I expect them to advocate for their cause. However, I would often look at things from a different perspective based on what they'd say.

Originally Posted by ScottJ

Let me say first, thank you for responding. My response is not personal, but underscores your presented argument as weak stewardship.

Your job as a steward is to adjudicate the rules and use the video evidence of the "actual plays", the race itself, to determine if the rules were violated. That's it. No where in that remit does a conversation with a jockey alter the rules or the video evidence.

What is most bothersome is that a built-in bias is introduced in jockey conversations where the steward's might offer more support to a case offered by a jockey in the steward's native language - for example.

If you want to use that information to determine jockey penalties the next day, fine, but that is not what the placing decision should involve.

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Film review, especially when the clock is ticking, can be very tough.

'Perspective' is valuable.

I'm not sure whether I think interviewing should even be part of the process.
Traditional routine. It portrays a sense of integrity. It encourages 'intent' to be wrongly considered....

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Film review, especially when the clock is ticking, can be very tough.

Originally Posted by ScottJ

Stop offering the "it's a tough job" defense. You took the damned job and you cash the paycheck. How can you play the "clock is ticking" card? Football, hockey, baseball, and basketball can all manage to get video reviews completed inside 3 minutes on equally complex rules decisions; that involves typically interfacing with a remote video crew. These NYRA stewards had 15 minutes to get it right and missed - twice.

Film review is tough. Doing it on the clock is sightly harder.

Has nothing to do with the major problems here.

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I was one of the slowest Stewards in history. I always wanted to look at it just one more time to be sure I didn't miss something. Which still happened. I'd see more things when I got home or in riders film review the next morning.

Originally Posted by ScottJ

This demonstrates your waffling in the steward's stand which shows us, the betting public, that you actually do not understand the rules which you are adjudicating.

That seems a little harsh. Vic was arguably in the top 500(perhaps even better) Stewards Of All Time in terms of watching film.

The significant problem is a low quality of the stewards, .

These guys stink, and the hiring process and evaluation process stinks.
The known 'job requirements' Stink.

They don't know the job. Some parts are done well, some parts have a supeficial knowledge.

Stewards are currently expected to know the rules, handle routine situations, know when to apply the rulebook vs when to use common sense.

They aren't even required to be highly-skilled race watchers!


Stewards superficial understanding of race watching harms the game.
High quality Racing Product, and then once in a while it is marred by having almost a game-show like seriousness,

OK A LAYMAN WILL NOW SELECT NUMBERS AND YOU COULD WIN $50,000!!!
*SPIN THE WHEEL!*

Significant outcomes in the results of the races for the horses, connections, horseplayers, fans...

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

[2] Was There a Question? - See the NYRA Steward's Page at https://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/racing...rds-decisions/. Once again, a failure to force the steward's to communicate their decision has effectively undermined the stewarding function as Race 9 is not discussed on the web site. Just another example of rigor and transparency in stewardship. Surely, just another "oversight" despite the fact that Race 8 appeared within 30 minutes of that investigation.

The steward's posting covering their decision is now available. Surely, this is the insight we have been awaiting...

Race 9

Steward’s inquiry. At the ¼ pole #12 Brick Ambush (Junior Alvarado) came in, causing a chain reaction. The #11 Solo’s Fury (Jose Lezcano) pushes down into the #7 The Big Torpedo (Javier Castellano). After reviewing the video and speaking with the riders, the stewards disqualified the #12 Brick Ambush for interference and place him behind the #11 Solo’s Fury.

Official order of finish: 1-3-7-6.

... or not. Brick Ambush came in. Thanks for that.

[Profesor]

Originally Posted by Sheffwed

NYRA really has become just one big joke

On any given Saturday, maybe now something like the 10th most appealing racetrack to wager on

And that's before the Stewards acting like 2 year olds

NYRA has been a joke for ever, for allowing brothers to ride in the same race but not husband and wife, for having corrupt and incompetent stewards,to having financial interest in CAWs

[SBD400]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

The steward's posting covering their decision is now available. Surely, this is the insight we have been awaiting...

... or not. Brick Ambush came in. Thanks for that.

What a farce!

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

The steward's posting covering their decision is now available. Surely, this is the insight we have been awaiting...

... or not. Brick Ambush came in. Thanks for that.

"Brick Ambush came in." yea... right...

*crickets*

Originally Posted by the Stewards AKA 'Jon Stewart Comedy Central The Daily Show'

"Race 9

Steward’s inquiry. At the ¼ pole #12 Brick Ambush (Junior Alvarado) came in, causing a chain reaction.

Good Stuff
The #11 Solo’s Fury (Jose Lezcano) pushes down into the #7 The Big Torpedo (Javier Castellano). After reviewing the video and speaking with the riders, the stewards disqualified the #12 Brick Ambush for interference and place him behind the #11 Solo’s Fury.

Official order of finish: 1-3-7-6."

Wow that's terrible. I can see that as just being a bad opinion in the heat of the moment (due to their lack of Race-Watching competence)...

However, if that was declared this morning, it shows a combination of stubbornness and/or abject untruth.

Don't know the appeal process, but a quality system absolutely re-opens this Stewards Official Ruling and issues an investigation to ultimately make a truthful public statement.

The Reeves were cost in this situation, and they have very strong case for appeal or whatever process, - however they are relatively classy and a relatively powerful presence compared to the average owner/breeder operation. I think they may simply take the loss.

Originally Posted by Jon Stewart

Stewart was born Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz at Doctors Hospital in New York City's Upper East Side to Marian (née Laskin)

According to Stewart, he was subjected to antisemitic bullying as a child.

Not his biggest fan for comedy or politics, but adversity probably strengthened Jon's resolve and determination. Never knew that he went through that.
Sorry for the tangent, delete if necessary, looking for famous 'Stews' or 'Stewarts' and noticed Jon's encouraging story.

[cj]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

The steward's posting covering their decision is now available. Surely, this is the insight we have been awaiting...

... or not. Brick Ambush came in. Thanks for that.

To be fair, they've always been a waste of time even when they post them more timely. They just echo what they already told you when the decision is made.

[SBD400]

The 1 came out, fouled the 7 (Franco looks over his shoulder knowing he fouled the 7, a tell tale sign). Then the 7 who was pushed over took the space of the 11 who overreacted to the 7 taking his space. The dimwitted stewards somehow think the 12 horse did something to the 11. The 12 horse had absolutely nothing to do with this. If Franco doesn't come out and foul the 7, he doesn't run the 12 down as he is stuck inside.

1 should be DQed for fouling the 7 and causing a chain reaction to the 11. 1 gets put last, 12 gets put up. No experienced rational person would end up with no change on the 1 and a DQ the 12.


Stewards need to be suspended or fired, this one was egregious on top of the other terrible calls this year.



And where is NYRA in all of this, the silence is deafening. Their product is being harmed by incompetent stewards.

[Profesor]

And where is NYRA in all of this, the silence is deafening. Their product is being harmed by incompetent stewards

The Company man TLG hasn't come in here to defend the corrupt NYRA stewards yet that tells a lot by itself

[SBD400]

Originally Posted by Profesor

And where is NYRA in all of this, the silence is deafening. Their product is being harmed by incompetent stewards

The Company man TLG hasn't come in here to defend the corrupt NYRA stewards yet that tells a lot by itself

He’s not stupid, this is indefensible. Now on top of it they have suspended Alvarado for his ride on the 12. Anyone remember some of the Ortiz brothers rides this year where they have done 100 times worse!

[paulbenny]

What do you make of no DQ in this race? Thoughts appreciated.

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[ScottJ]

Headlines from NYRA's Saturday Race 9 continue : "Brick Ambush, The Big Torpedo connections file appeals in Great White Way disqualification"

https://www.drf.com/news/brick-ambus...squalification

[1] Dean Reeves, the owner of Brick Ambush, who was disqualified from second and placed last, has appealed the decision.

[2] Javier Castellano, the rider of The Big Torpedo, said he lodged an objection - though it was not clear against which horse - that was never relayed to the stewards.

[3] The connections of The Big Torpedo fear that should Reeves win his appeal and Brick Ambush is restored to second and if no action is taken against Antonio of Venice, The Big Torpedo would be moved back down to fourth - a difference of $30,000 in purse money - according to trainer Tom Morley.

[4] ... stewards on Sunday handed Junior Alvarado, the rider of Brick Ambush, a three-day suspension for careless riding. Alvarado has 48 hours to decide if he wants to appeal.

[cj]

Originally Posted by paulbenny

What do you make of no DQ in this race? Thoughts appreciated.

1 took out the 2 and 3, the 3 won anyway, the 2 had nothing so don't see how you could DQ for that.

Additionally they rarely ever DQ in SoCal for gate infractions.