Rick Dutrow’s ban ends. He has to apply for a license.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by cj

As the basketball kids say these days, Dutrow is really in his bag right now. Throw the PPs out while he is on a streak like this.

His horses made complete sense. What do the idiots think, he saved the good juice for ten plus years? He came back from a ten year suspension and started cheating?

When Bobby Frankel says you're the best horsemen he's ever seen, that means a lot more than clueless conspiracy minded lunatics on social media.

[cj]

Originally Posted by the little guy

His horses made complete sense. What do the idiots think, he saved the good juice for ten plus years? He came back from a ten year suspension and started cheating?

When Bobby Frankel says you're the best horsemen he's ever seen, that means a lot more than clueless conspiracy minded lunatics on social media.

They made some sense, let's not get crazy now. I picked the 4 as did you in the 6th race today. But they've all ran huge and paid well. It isn't like he has won with a bunch of 8-5 shots. His ROI beginning with the BC Classic over 12 starts is approaching 9.00 for every 2 bet.

The last race winner is hard to get on paper. We talked about her on the show yesterday as maybe a contender and I see you picked her fourth. She won like a 6-5.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by cj

They made some sense, let's not get crazy now. I picked the 4 as did you in the 6th race today. But they've all ran huge and paid well. It isn't like he has won with a bunch of 8-5 shots. His ROI beginning with the BC Classic over 12 starts is approaching 9.00 for every 2 bet.

The last race winner is hard to get on paper. We talked about her on the show yesterday as maybe a contender and I see you picked her fourth. She won like a 6-5.

Run huge? Please.

The favorite in the last race got a horrendous ride and probably should have won. Regardless, this notion that someone that improves horses can't be a good trainer, but has to be cheating, is moronic. It makes ZERO sense that Rick got right back into training and somehow is right away cheating up a storm. Has it occurred to you that he may specifically be choosing horses he thinks he can improve?

It's insulting. The guy serves ten years, comes back, has success, and everyone says he's cheating. It's gross. Frankly, anytime you find yourself with the majority on Twitter, there's a VERY good chance you're wrong.

[cj]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Run huge? Please.

The favorite in the last race got a horrendous ride and probably should have won. Regardless, this notion that someone that improves horses can't be a good trainer, but has to be cheating, is moronic. It makes ZERO sense that Rick got right back into training and somehow is right away cheating up a storm. Has it occurred to you that he may specifically be choosing horses he thinks he can improve?

It's insulting. The guy serves ten years, comes back, has success, and everyone says he's cheating. It's gross. Frankly, anytime you find yourself with the majority on Twitter, there's a VERY good chance you're wrong.

Well you read it how you wanted to read it I guess, because I never said he is cheating. I have no idea what he does or doesn't do and that is what I say about everyone.

I'll wait for you to send me the list of people it is ok to be skeptical about. You've certainly made statements like I did about other trainers. Go lecture somebody else, I'm not that guy.

[Sheffwed]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Run huge? Please.

The favorite in the last race got a horrendous ride and probably should have won. Regardless, this notion that someone that improves horses can't be a good trainer, but has to be cheating, is moronic. It makes ZERO sense that Rick got right back into training and somehow is right away cheating up a storm. Has it occurred to you that he may specifically be choosing horses he thinks he can improve?

It's insulting. The guy serves ten years, comes back, has success, and everyone says he's cheating. It's gross. Frankly, anytime you find yourself with the majority on Twitter, there's a VERY good chance you're wrong.

you have no idea, but you have an opinion (of course)

like most of the folks here, at all times, right or wrong

that is how gambling on horse racing works, and so does the financial system and the global economy as well, some folks end up being on the right side of a transaction, some not, some were right, some were wrong, some tilt the odds their way, some stretch the rules as far as they can until they break

in retrospect, there's a very good chance you will be wrong, given this guy's track record

but you have an opinion, and that is your right

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by cj

Well you read it how you wanted to read it I guess, because I never said he is cheating. I have no idea what he does or doesn't do and that is what I say about everyone.

I'll wait for you to send me the list of people it is ok to be skeptical about. You've certainly made statements like I did about other trainers. Go lecture somebody else, I'm not that guy.

Have you considered when you have company like Sheffwed, you might be at the wrong party?

The guy did ten years and is attacked as soon as he comes back because he wins. Tough crowd.

[cj]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Have you considered when you have company like Sheffwed, you might be at the wrong party?

The guy did ten years and is attacked as soon as he comes back because he wins. Tough crowd.

I think at this point in time is fine to be skeptical of people that have horses running like his are, especially when they are coming off a 10 year suspension that included some drug stuff. I don't blame anyone that doesn't give him the benefit of the doubt. I'll just bet him until the current streak stops.

That was the real point of what I said, just bet him! It is pointless to try to figure out who is doing what, just know what is happening on the track. His horses are greatly outrunning there odds. I'm not sure how "being in his bag" implied he was cheating. Maybe you don't follow the NBA?

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by cj

I think at this point in time is fine to be skeptical of people that have horses running like his are, especially when they are coming off a 10 year suspension that included some drug stuff. I don't blame anyone that doesn't give him the benefit of the doubt. I'll just bet him until the current streak stops.

That was the real point of what I said, just bet him! It is pointless to try to figure out who is doing what, just know what is happening on the track. His horses are greatly outrunning there odds. I'm not sure how "being in his bag" implied he was cheating. Maybe you don't follow the NBA?

I know one thing, mildly improving already proven Stakes horses from Saffie Joseph is not one of the world's greatest accomplishments!

Go Thunder! I'm pissed i chickened out of making a big bet on their win total O/U.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by bisket

https://www.drf.com/news/breeders-cu...top-races-2024

White Abarrio has an issue with his hoof. A change would Dutrow good. Glad to see most of the horses in the Classic will race next year.

A cracked heel is NOT a hoof. It is the area above the foot before the 45% angle otherwise known as a pastern that goes up to the ankle.

A friggin cracked heel.

If anyone has ever actually had dry feet and their heel area actually cracked through the skin, it is sore. A cracked skin area on a finger is sore. Same idea.
It's nothing that makes a horse breakdown or pull up. It's a damn skin crack in the heel area.

Excuse my frustration but the Frankel comment Andy made is 100% true. Try and dwell on that for just as minute. Bobby Frankel !!!

Ricky is a remarkable horseman. And to say that because of the previous "drugs" he used allows for people to comment is just wrong.

What drugs ??? Please enlighten me on those "drugs". Or did we read it wrong or just assumed.

But hey, it is the internet, where it must be right if I typed it.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by cj

I think at this point in time is fine to be skeptical of people that have horses running like his are, especially when they are coming off a 10 year suspension that included some drug stuff. I don't blame anyone that doesn't give him the benefit of the doubt. I'll just bet him until the current streak stops.

That was the real point of what I said, just bet him! It is pointless to try to figure out who is doing what, just know what is happening on the track. His horses are greatly outrunning there odds. I'm not sure how "being in his bag" implied he was cheating. Maybe you don't follow the NBA?

That's really what we can do. BET in the right situations/prices with these winners. Cut back when/if they get cold.

I don't know what the NBA/Basketball guys mean all the time w/ 'bag'. Sometimes it's money, sometimes it's success.

Although it happens every day at every significant track, the stage of BC Classic Winners reminds of Knicks Go (2021 winner)

Knicks Go was mildly improved and got fortunate trips.
White Abarrio was mildly improved and got fortunate trips.

Dutrow helped to have White Abarrio equipped with glue-on shoes. He did other things. He really is a good horseman. He helps get the most out of a horse.

Top programs try to have a thriving horse whether the trainer is a genius or the staff is simply top notch.

They know they have a good horse and in the current game, they are pleasantly surprised when most of their stock then significantly/mildly improves.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

I don't know what the NBA/Basketball guys mean all the time w/ 'bag'. Sometimes it's money, sometimes it's success.

"To be in one's bag" means "to be focused" or "to do something to one's highest level of ability" (The Online Slang Dictionary, Urban Dictionary).

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by cj

"To be in one's bag" means "to be focused" or "to do something to one's highest level of ability" (The Online Slang Dictionary, Urban Dictionary).

Thanks. My vocabulary is not as hip as it once was.

[paulbenny]

Rick Dutrow Jr. started out around the stables in his teen years with brothers Chip and Tony working with or for his father a solid successful Maryland-based trainer where the best horsemen in the U.S. once existed. Rick is no longer suspended and his record prior to suspension was extremely impressive. The suspension is over. He is a very good trainer. He improved White Abarrio partly by hiring a jockey who was winning at Finger Lakes to be his full-time exercise rider believing it was worth the investment.

I do not know Rick at all but know people who worked with him in the 1970s. The man does have a skill without a doubt. This is his life. He had personal problems without repeating some of a prior post on this subject.

Given the decline in horsemen in NY in the winter, and the decline in racing stock which is predictable in NY which is a backwards state, he should thrive against the remnants of what remains of one of the lesser circuits during the colder months. He has only a couple of really solid trainers to compete against.

His numbers should continue to be on the upswing partly because of that along with a true skill that should lead to more runners in his barn.

He took over the training of White Abarrio from Saffie Joseph Jr. who along with Robertino Diodoro pick up horses these days from the Ramsey family who apparently did not pay their bills at times and have to win, so who they turned to makes sense because those individuals do win. I would not give my horse to them just to win.

If I owned a horse I would not hesitate to give it to Rick.

[classhandicapper]

We know what he's good at and how he tends to operate from years ago. If you are operating a track you have to worry about customer perception of what's going on at your track. If you are a semi serious or serious gambler, the money is just as green regardless of whether a trainer is great, operating in gray areas, or outright cheating. We may be curious but we don't have to know to make money.

In the category of "things that make you say hmmm" though it must be noted that both his winners yesterday were older horses that ran lifetime tops on Beyer and one came from Linda Rice.

Has it occurred to you that he may specifically be choosing horses he thinks he can improve?

I think this is probably an underrated point.

If you look at the records of move up trainers, you will sometimes find differences between how they do with claims vs. horses sent to them privately vs. which trainer it came from and even how they do with different owners. So some it is clearly whether the horse had issues to begin with.