Religion II

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Now... you're conveniently forgetting something rather important about those "many strategies": It took many ages for each of those strategies to materialize ...

Life emerged on this planet about four billion years ago. You are admitting that it took billions of years.

Originally Posted by boxcar

... meanwhile...how did man, in his infancy stage ...

Infancy stage? Are you seriously suggesting that a species that took billions of years to evolve is in its infancy?

Originally Posted by boxcar

When man, for example, crawled out of the primordial slime ...

Oh, brother! Is your ignorance of the Theory of Evolution really that bad? You refuse to read anything at all about evolution unless it is written by someone just as ignorant as you are. You are willfully ignorant and wish to remain so.

For your information man did not crawl out of the "primordial slime." For one thing when the ancestors of man left the sea it was pretty much the same kind of water which makes up today's oceans, the main difference being that it was much less salty.

And that ancestor was some kind of vertebrate. Others had left the sea much earlier.

And you grew up in the "primordial slime," only the word we use for it today is amniotic fruit. Also, at one time in your life you had gills, i.e., you used to be a fish.

Originally Posted by boxcar

... did he master fire right away?

Not being a paleobiologist I cannot say. I will say that the time required was just a blink in geological time.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Did man master language right away?

That one I just happen to have some information on. If my source is correct then genetic research indicates that language happened in a single generation.

Originally Posted by boxcar

By the way, what you're doing is back-fitting your strategy hypotheses to fit the theory of evolution. Just thought I'd call that to your attention, Dumpty.

Wrong. Those who back-fit are unwilling to change their thesis regardless of what evidence is presented. Give me evidence and I will change my mind. Go to YouTube and watch the Bill Nye - Ken Hamm debate

Originally Posted by boxcar

I've long been curious about something regarding the "famous" tag team match of Humpty-Dumpty: Which one of you boneheads is the better half?

Who is the other half?

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I did no such thing. You're another one with a severe reading comp problem -- not to mention very poor critical thinking skills. But try really, really hard to grasp this: Human Survival Skills Development is no problem in the model of Creationism; but it's a huge problem in Evolution Theory. Got that now?

P.S. Humpty and Dumpty are both evolutionists.

Meanwhile, sleep tight and don't let the bedbugs bite.

You are using your disbelief in evolution as an argument of why man is God's favorite. That argument is not only false but irrelevant in our relationship to God.

Scientifically, man does not possess the superior ability for survival as you claim whether you believe the Earth is 6000 years old or 4.5 Billion years old. If there is a nuclear war, meteor strike, or worldwide disease, the human species will be wiped out. But several species of animals and organisms already possess the ability to survive the harsh conditions we can't. And they may be God's way of insuring that life restarts on Earth in the future. This has already happened in the past. We just weren't around as a species.

What species evolves faster or survives calamities has nothing to do with our relationship to God. Actor is right. We are NOT the superior species in survival. That doesn't mean God loves us less or God loves those species that can survive worldwide disasters more. Because if you did understand science, you would know we are the decedents of microorganisms, not Adam and Eve. And microorganisms were put here by God, knowing man would evolve from them.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Actor

You should read Genesis by Robert M. Hazen before making claims like that.

The natural world is filled with examples of species which survive and thrive "in an exceedingly hostile world surrounded by wild, dangerous, hungry carnivores on all sides who were much stronger, faster and naturally equipped to kill.". The lowly mouse for one. What counts is the survival of the species rather than of any one individual. There are many strategies. E.g., safety in numbers, coordinated hunts, the ability to manufacture tools (particularly sharp edges and other weapons). Language gives Homo sapiens the ability to exchange abstract ideas. And, of course, the mastery of fire, something no other species on this planet has ever done. All these have lead us to dominate the planet.

I would mention the gradual evolution of homo sapiens even before the acquisition of fire and language skills, there were biological changes affecting how man developed and survived.

"Genetic studies show that primates diverged from other mammals about 85 million years ago, in the Late Cretaceous period, and the earliest fossils appear in the Paleocene, around 55 million years ago.."

Biological changes.....

1)-the opposable thumb, holding things, using and making tools

2)-Bipedalism, freeing arms to do much more

3)-Encephalization-Brain size, obvious advantages.

This is all well documented and available to anyone with a basic education.

4)-Culture developed along with social groups, leading to education, sharing and "emotional" intelligence. Meaning Love and compassion, allowing the strong to enhance survival of the weak, and which help spread a greater variety of DNA, creating a greater chance of survival of all of mankind.

5) If you wish you may call this process "god directed", instead of evolution, or any word games you like, but PLEASE learn some of the important details of this amazing gigantic awe-inspiring process.

Remember bunky, THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS, and "god" may be embedded there as well.

The universe in a grain of sand is worth studying. Not ignoring.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I would mention the gradual evolution of homo sapiens even before the acquisition of fire and language skills, there were biological changes affecting how man developed and survived.

"Genetic studies show that primates diverged from other mammals about 85 million years ago, in the Late Cretaceous period, and the earliest fossils appear in the Paleocene, around 55 million years ago.."

Biological changes.....

1)-the opposable thumb, holding things, using and making tools

2)-Bipedalism, freeing arms to do much more

3)-Encephalization-Brain size, obvious advantages.

This is all well documented and available to anyone with a basic education.

4)-Culture developed along with social groups, leading to education, sharing and "emotional" intelligence. Meaning Love and compassion, allowing the strong to enhance survival of the weak, and which help spread a greater variety of DNA, creating a greater chance of survival of all of mankind.

5) If you wish you may call this process "god directed", instead of evolution, or any word games you like, but PLEASE learn some of the important details of this amazing gigantic awe-inspiring process.

Remember bunky, THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS, and "god" may be embedded there as well.

The universe in a grain of sand is worth studying. Not ignoring.

Hey, Humpty, you should take your own advice; for indeed the devil is in those pesky details. So, explain to us how homo sapiens in our infancy stage and, therefore, at our most vulnerable period of evolutionary development could have come into this very hostile world with sufficient survival skills to not only survive attacks from numerous kinds of predators all around us but to thrive, and not only thrived but made it to the top of the food chain.

Indulge me in another of my great analogies. The slow, gradual process of evolution could be likened to the [not as] slow slow, gradual process of birth, growth and maturity. If a woman gave birth to a baby and tossed the defenseless infant into a lions' den, what do you think the odds of the infant's survival would be? Likewise, according to evolution theory, all homo sapiens, at our earliest stages of evolution, would have come into this world totally defenseless against stronger and faster carnivorous creatures who were exceedingly more developed in all aspects of their survival skills than the earliest homo sapiens, so how did much physically and mentally weaker humans manage to avoid mass extinction by not getting eaten by the stronger, most especially when the weakest were also greatly outnumbered by the strongest ? After all, all predators instinctively know that the easiest dinner to catch and the most vulnerable of all prey are the young, sick or injured.

Fill us in on all the details on how the weakest and dumbest of all creatures, at their infancy stages of evolutionary stages of development, managed to pull off that miracle!

[hcap]

Originally Posted by bollixed_up_car

Hey, Humpty, you should take your own advice; for indeed the devil is in those pesky details. So, explain to us how homo sapiens in our infancy stage and, therefore, at our most vulnerable period of evolutionary development could have come into this very hostile world with sufficient survival skills to not only survive attacks from numerous kinds of predators all around us but to thrive, and not only thrived but made it to the top of the food chain.

You are using "infancy" incorrectly.

I said..

"Genetic studies show that primates diverged from other mammals about 85 million years ago, in the Late Cretaceous period, and the earliest fossils appear in the Paleocene, around 55 million years ago.."

Our evolutionary development was certainly NOT analogous to helpless babies crawling around on the floor. Thinking like that is bonkers and irrational

Go back to school.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You are using "infancy" incorrectly.

I said..Our evolutionary development was certainly NOT analogous to helpless babies crawling around on the floor. Thinking like that is bonkers and irrational

Go back to school.

Yes, it is analogous! According to evolution theory, it had to have taken us a very long time to develop sufficient survival skills. So, yes, "infancy stage" is a very appropriate description because in the very beginning of our development (like infants), we were weak physically and mentally -- and greatly outnumbered by predators. The first homo sapiens didn't come into this world with a book of matches in one hand and a jungle survival manual in the other, nor did we have the speed of the Flash to outrun hungry predators.

So...explain to us how the earliest homo sapiens managed to overcome the three above mentioned handicaps -- physical, mental and sheer numbers of natural enemies.

Meanwhile, here was the wisdom of God to Israel before they entered the Promised Land:

Deut 7:22
22 And the Lord your God will clear away these nations before you little by little; you will not be able to put an end to them quickly, lest the wild beasts grow too numerous for you.
NASB

What do you think would have happened if Israel ignored this wisdom and the wild beasts grew too numerous for them? And by this time in human history, man had weapons at his disposal, rode fleet-footed horses and communicated coherently with one another.

So...tell us: Did the goddess Mother Nature "clear away" very many of the wild predatory beasts from the earth to allow man to slowly evolve over the aeons? Did Mother Nature have mercy and compassion on the earliest homo sapiens to assist his survival? How exactly did Mother Nature tilt the playing field in favor of man over wild, predatory beasts?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by bunky

Yes, it is analogous! According to evolution theory, it had to have taken us a very long time to develop sufficient survival skills. So, yes, "infancy stage" is a very appropriate description because in the very beginning of our development (like infants), we were weak physically and mentally -- and greatly outnumbered by predators. The first homo sapiens didn't come into this world with a book of matches in one hand and a jungle survival manual in the other, nor did we have the speed of the Flash to outrun hungry predators.

During this "very long time" (I quoted:the earliest fossils appear in the Paleocene, around 55 million years ago.), at any stage of this process early hominids passed thru millions of cycles of , first infancy, 2nd childhood, 3rd teenage-hood, 4th maturity and 5th senior citizenry.

Before any significant evolutionary change occurred from one stage to the next.


Can anyone understand what boxcar is trying to babble here?
I can not understand what he is trying to say.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

During this "very long time" (I quoted:the earliest fossils appear in the Paleocene, around 55 million years ago.), at any stage of this process early hominids passed thru millions of cycles of , first infancy, 2nd childhood, 3rd teenage-hood, 4th maturity and 5th senior citizenry.

Before any significant evolutionary change occurred from one stage to the next.


Can anyone understand what boxcar is trying to babble here?
I can not understand what he is trying to say.

Yeah...okay...so how did the earliest hominids manage to survive cycle 1 (infancy). How did they manage to overcome the three handicaps I laid out in my last post? (Here are the three weaknesses again: Strength, Speed and Mental Acuity.)

And, Humpty...you don't have to play dumb with me. We know that that is your natural state.

[hcap]

Absurd. How does any mammal survive infancy?

Generally moms help.
Study your cats bunky

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Absurd. How does any mammal survive infancy?

Generally moms help.
Study your cats bunky

Yeah...but the mammal we call "man" wasn't equipped to survive in this hostile world, since he was the last one to evolve (making him the "infant" in the evolutionary chain"). So, how did man survive all the wild, predatory beasts that were stronger, faster, smarter and naturally equipped to kill man -- most especially at his most vulnerable "infancy" stage of cycle 1?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yeah...but the mammal we call "man" wasn't equipped to survive in this hostile world, since he was the last one to evolve (making him the "infant" in the evolutionary chain"). So, how did man survive all the wild, predatory beasts that were stronger, faster, smarter and naturally equipped to kill man -- most especially at his most vulnerable "infancy" stage of cycle 1?

The evolution of modern man took thousands of cycles of infants becoming adults. Mammalian mothers care for their young.

Human evolution is the evolutionary process that led to the emergence of anatomically modern humans, beginning with the evolutionary history of primates – in particular genus Homo – and leading to the emergence of Homo sapiens as a distinct species of the hominid family, the great apes.

Modern man: The earliest fossils of anatomically modern humans are from the Middle Paleolithic, about 200,000 years ago.

So 200,000 years age an early modern female gave birth to an early modern human baby. SHE TOOK CARE OF her baby.
It is as simple as that.

BTW her other early modern man neighbors in her group lent a hand.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

The evolution of modern man took thousands of cycles of infants becoming adults. Mammalian mothers care for their young.

Human evolution is the evolutionary process that led to the emergence of anatomically modern humans, beginning with the evolutionary history of primates – in particular genus Homo – and leading to the emergence of Homo sapiens as a distinct species of the hominid family, the great apes.

Modern man: The earliest fossils of anatomically modern humans are from the Middle Paleolithic, about 200,000 years ago.

So 200,000 years age an early modern female gave birth to an early modern human baby. SHE TOOK CARE OF her baby.
It is as simple as that.

BTW her other early modern man neighbors in her group lent a hand.

Another non-reply.

So...tell us, how did "Mammalian mothers", who were even earlier in the evolution chain/cycle manage to survive? How did they develop survival skills to live, to breed and to care for baby mammals?

IOW, Humpty, your lame attempt at an answer begs the question big time.

Let me try to break this down even further for you: At some point in the evolutionary cycle of man, "the great apes" quit being so great. They eventually evolved into something smaller and far weaker than their ancestors.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So, how did man survive all the wild, predatory beasts that were stronger, faster, smarter and naturally equipped to kill man --

Hmmm, that's a real tough one. Hmmm. Let's see... brains? Ah, yes, no wonder this is such a hard topic for you to understand.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Light

Hmmm, that's a real tough one. Hmmm. Let's see... brains? Ah, yes, no wonder this is such a hard topic for you to understand.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Hmmm, that's a real tough one. Hmmm. Let's see... brains? Ah, yes, no wonder this is such a hard topic for you to understand.

"Brains"? But their brains also had to evolve from one cycle to the next to the next, etc.! The earliest hominids might have had an IQ that rivaled Forrest Gump. And that would not have been sufficient to outwit well experienced predators who by that time would have had finely honed predatory skills that had been developed over many ages -- skills strongly supported by strength and/or speed and natural hunting and killing skills -- all of which the earliest hominids would have lacked.

Now...here's a hard topic for you: You do know that your "best friend" is the creator of the universe all that is in it, right? And you do know that he wasn't a fan of evolution, right?