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05-23-2018, 06:40 PM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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According to certain orange kool-aid drinkers here, criticizing tariffs means hating Trump and everything he has done. So every objective criticism of tariffs is ignored and sweep away as pure hate.
I never expected any better from the Orangemen, but I hoped that some others here would see the inevitable historic result of tariffs and question the use of them.
P.S. The only tariffs so far that have been in effect long enough to measure are those on Canadian lumber. They have raised the price of an average single-family house by over $6000. And they have not created any new jobs, because the American lumber industry is at near capacity and can't meet demand.
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A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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05-23-2018, 06:43 PM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,972
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Thanks President Trump for being well on your way to making America Great again.
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05-24-2018, 01:10 AM
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Western NY
Posts: 5,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
A "bit" more? A 15% increase in the cost of living is a bit more? And tariffs aren't going to bring those jobs back. Almost 85% of the manufacturing jobs lost in this country in recent years were lost to automation, not to moving off-shore.
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BS
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05-24-2018, 01:27 AM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtb
BS
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Oops, I was wrong. Actually, of 5 million factory jobs lost since 2000, 88% were due to automation.
Quote:
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The U.S. has lost 5 million factory jobs since 2000. And trade has indeed claimed production jobs – in particular when China joined the World Trade Organization in 2001. Nevertheless, there was no downturn in U.S. manufacturing output. As a matter of fact, U.S. production has been growing over the last decades. From 2006 to 2013, “manufacturing grew by 17.6%, or at roughly 2.2% per year,” according to a report from Ball State University. The study reports as well that trade accounted for 13% of the lost U.S. factory jobs, but 88% of the jobs were taken by robots and other factors at home.
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http://fortune.com/2016/11/08/china-automation-jobs/
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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05-24-2018, 01:38 AM
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#35
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Just another Facist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 52,765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
According to certain orange kool-aid drinkers here, criticizing tariffs means hating Trump and everything he has done. So every objective criticism of tariffs is ignored and sweep away as pure hate.
I never expected any better from the Orangemen, but I hoped that some others here would see the inevitable historic result of tariffs and question the use of them. At least that’s how I look at it
P.S. The only tariffs so far that have been in effect long enough to measure are those on Canadian lumber. They have raised the price of an average single-family house by over $6000. And they have not created any new jobs, because the American lumber industry is at near capacity and can't meet demand.
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Most of us don’t care. For one reason. They can be lifted with the stroke of a pen. If they don’t work out, big deal. Repeal the tariff.
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WE ARE THE DUMBEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET!
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05-24-2018, 06:20 AM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRalph
Most of us don’t care. For one reason. They can be lifted with the stroke of a pen. If they don’t work out, big deal. Repeal the tariff.
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He makes a point, mostly untrue, about something transitory like a tariff. It's a negotiating tool. Nothing more or less. I don't understand the agitation. His "facts" are without context to make tariffs seem blindly hurtful to make his point stronger.
Take for instance the $6,000 Canadian lumber number. That represents a 2% increase on the average price of a house. We also need to keep in mind that this is spring when lumber costs usually go up. So a portion of that lumber increase is natural.
... BUT TARIFFS
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05-24-2018, 09:23 AM
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRalph
Most of us don’t care. For one reason. They can be lifted with the stroke of a pen. If they don’t work out, big deal. Repeal the tariff.
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 They lead to retaliation which is one reason why you would care.
 They haven't done anything to positively impact the economy in a meaningful way.
 Most industries affected are actually opposed to it.
 It wasn't sound economic policy when people voted for it and it's now being proven to be unsound economic policy while in office.
Yet people still defend the original logic.
You point to the lumber industry (the only real and meaningful tariff to this point. He's backed down on all others so far.) and shocker... its hurting jobs and industry by raising prices on consumers.
The original argument.
There is no corresponding data that says tariffs = domestic growth and jobs.
Protectionism doesn't work in developed countries.
Last edited by elysiantraveller; 05-24-2018 at 09:26 AM.
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05-24-2018, 10:31 AM
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker6
Take for instance the $6,000 Canadian lumber number. That represents a 2% increase on the average price of a house. We also need to keep in mind that this is spring when lumber costs usually go up. So a portion of that lumber increase is natural.
... BUT TARIFFS
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No, that is the portion attributable to lumber tariffs. It is a 24% tax on lumber, and it is not going to create any American jobs. Tariffs are a tax. Just like the 30% tax on imported solar panels that will kill 20,000 installer jobs. I didn't hear any Trumpette trying to justify that.
If you are in favor of protectionist tariffs, be honest enough to say so, and come up with some facts to justify them. Opposition to tariffs is not based on hatred of Trump, which is the only argument supporters here keep coming up with. Opposition is an honest, rational reaction against barriers to free trade.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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05-24-2018, 11:07 AM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRalph
Most of us don’t care. For one reason. They can be lifted with the stroke of a pen. If they don’t work out, big deal. Repeal the tariff.
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But if they do work out, you have no problem with taxing American consumers to protect some companies against foreign competition?
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A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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05-29-2018, 11:48 AM
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#41
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
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I like it...can I get it in XL? Minus the KKK symbol of course. That was a tad rude.
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05-29-2018, 11:53 AM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
I like it...can I get it in XL? Minus the KKK symbol of course. That was a tad rude.
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I didn't know that's what that was... my bad. Wouldn't have posted it if I'd known that. Some people I'm just responding to with memes and images these days. Feel free to take it down.
Learn something new everyday.
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05-29-2018, 12:12 PM
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ketchikan,AK
Posts: 2,086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
I didn't know that's what that was... my bad. Wouldn't have posted it if I'd known that. Some people I'm just responding to with memes and images these days. Feel free to take it down.
Learn something new everyday.
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Ya! Right..oopsie...Hysterical.. 
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05-29-2018, 12:22 PM
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisl
Ya! Right..oopsie...Hysterical.. |
Honestly... didn't.
I did just defend the guy in the racist thread so I guess there is that... 
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05-29-2018, 12:30 PM
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ketchikan,AK
Posts: 2,086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Honestly... didn't.
I did just defend the guy in the racist thread so I guess there is that... |
You just went from spade shovel to backhoe, on the hole, you are digging.
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