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10-19-2020, 05:39 PM
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#62
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,800
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Excerpt:
“Most of the perception issues that we are dealing with now are in the stretch,” Baeza said. “And I don’t know how else to put it: We don’t have a problem. [Why are we] trying to fix something that’s not broken right now?”
Donofrio agreed, and added that if New York allowed riders to only carry whips for emergency safety use, it would be problematic for stewards to adjudicate violations.
“What if the jock says, ‘I thought my horse was going to prop, I had to hit him?'” Donofrio asked. “Are you going to call him a liar?”
“People say, ‘Use the reins,'” Smith said. “Well let me tell you something: Try pulling on a horse that weighs 1,200 pounds. And if it ain’t working, all you have next is the riding crop. That’s all we have. If you take that away, trust me—the game becomes twice as dangerous. If not more.
“I’m in a state right now, in California where I’m riding, [and] they have rules that are extremely strict,” Smith continued. “They’ve changed our style of the way you’re supposed to use your crop and it’s not working here. We’re having a lot of trouble with it. The system’s set up to fail. You’re having riders being suspended [and] fined for literally, absolutely nothing, and it’s ruining our sport out here. Listening to the stewards there in [New York] speak, is the best that I’ve heard since this thing’s been going on. You guys have got it right.”
https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...rk-whip-rules/
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10-19-2020, 06:18 PM
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#63
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,800
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10-20-2020, 10:30 AM
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#64
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
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I don't buy this argument at all.
Countless horses that formerly would have lost are now going to win.
The only difference is that the horses that are going to win now are the ones that are willing/capable of running straight and giving their best effort without being whipped excessively. How is that a bad thing? It could even be an indication of better mental and physical health.
This entire debate is about safety, not whether my horse gets up in a tough photo today because he was whipped excessively. Tomorrow some horse will get up and beat me for the same reason.
They need to work with the jockeys to iron the safety concerns and then this is a non issue.
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"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
Last edited by classhandicapper; 10-20-2020 at 10:32 AM.
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10-20-2020, 12:47 PM
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#65
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,800
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I don't believe anyone likes seeing overuse of a whip. Even though it doesn't hurt the horses it is foolish and irresponsible. There is an image problem and a perception problem but the answer is to educate the public. Kids know what nerf toys feel like.
Sometimes they are needed for urging and sometimes not at all. It's crazy to have the elites in the Industry who've failed the Industry go beyond the 3 strike rule in Ca to a no whip rule.
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10-20-2020, 01:19 PM
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#66
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,749
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No one is going to start betting on horses because of these new whip rules but a few close losses will turn some bettors off. I only have a couple of friends left that still bet on horses but one is quitting California now.
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10-20-2020, 03:15 PM
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#67
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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It would also help if there was some uniformity. Watch a race and feel like your horse may have placed better with more encouragement, watch another race a minute later in another jurisdiction and you get beat with whip use and feel like the situation was reversed.
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10-20-2020, 09:47 PM
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#68
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Join Date: Mar 2017
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10-22-2020, 10:21 PM
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#69
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 510
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The whip rule wont kill California Horse Racing as much as 2 Day a week Racing with 5 horse fields will. Coming so. Any barn and Trainer worth his or Her's salt will leave by the end of the year.
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10-23-2020, 02:55 AM
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#70
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronsmac
No one is going to start betting on horses because of these new whip rules but a few close losses will turn some bettors off. I only have a couple of friends left that still bet on horses but one is quitting California now.
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Interesting. Most everyone I know who left racing did it because they can't handicap drugs and consider it abusive. Then there are people who leave because no whipping.
I guess there really is 2 sides to every coin. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
The only difference is that the horses that are going to win now are the ones that are willing/capable of running straight and giving their best effort without being whipped excessively. How is that a bad thing?
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Sounds reasonable to me.
BTW, when a horse loses a rider, they all keep on running. Their instinct is to remain with the herd, and besides, they like to run. 
Hasn't there been a few who "win" or almost win, riderless? I haven't ever really looked that up and my memory isn't long these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
It would also help if there was some uniformity. Watch a race and feel like your horse may have placed better with more encouragement, watch another race a minute later in another jurisdiction and you get beat with whip use and feel like the situation was reversed.
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THIS ^^^
There are other um......situations.....where that might work better, too.
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10-23-2020, 09:30 AM
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#71
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1,215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicknow
BTW, when a horse loses a rider, they all keep on running. Their instinct is to remain with the herd, and besides, they like to run.
Hasn't there been a few who "win" or almost win, riderless? I haven't ever really looked that up and my memory isn't long these days. |
Not only do most of those who lose their rider keep running with and sometimes ahead of the group (although in US, the most likely route is quickest back to the barn), but as I watch a lot of the UK racing - they often continue over the obstacles in jumps racing.
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Tom in NW Arkansas
——————
”Past performances are no guarantee of future results.” - Why isn't this disclaimer printed in the Daily Racing Form?
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10-23-2020, 12:57 PM
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#72
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicknow
.......BTW, when a horse loses a rider, they all keep on running. Their instinct is to remain with the herd, and besides, they like to run.
Hasn't there been a few who "win" or almost win, riderless? I haven't ever really looked that up and my memory isn't long these days....... |
Wouldn't a use of a whip be to get a horse to not run with the herd? Unless a horse is an alpha horse it would seem that the herd horses would need some extra coaxing to get to the lead.
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Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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10-23-2020, 03:01 PM
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#73
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Wouldn't a use of a whip be to get a horse to not run with the herd? Unless a horse is an alpha horse it would seem that the herd horses would need some extra coaxing to get to the lead.
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I would have to ask Kerry Thomas.
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10-23-2020, 03:21 PM
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#74
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicknow
I would have to ask Kerry Thomas. |
It would definitely be interesting to hear his opinion.
__________________
Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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10-23-2020, 03:29 PM
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#75
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Wouldn't a use of a whip be to get a horse to not run with the herd? Unless a horse is an alpha horse it would seem that the herd horses would need some extra coaxing to get to the lead.
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Yes. This point has been made by jocks across the country. Very astute Andy C!!
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