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Old 02-03-2015, 07:46 AM   #46
reckless
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Originally Posted by jballscalls
yeah because God and Christmas can be found no where in our country
Jason, you miss the point.

God, Christmas, Christians and Jews are being institutionally attacked by 'establishment' entities the world over: in government, in popular media outlets, in the entertainment and culture industry and to a too large extent, in the feckless yet powerful Fortune 1000 corporate entities and elites.
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:49 AM   #47
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hypothetical question; your 65 yo father comes to you and says he want to become a woman. Do your support him going ahead with it, or do you try to dissuade him?
I talk with him about it, listen to his reasons and concerns and support whatever he decides to do. It's not like he's hurting anyone. I would want my father to be happy.

Certainly it would be difficult in the sense that it's a very huge change, but it's not my decision to make. And I'd be concerned that my father would face discrimination and hate like we've seen in this thread, and I'd share that concern with him.

My dad died when he was 47 and i'm trying to imagine having this conversation with him and it made me laugh cause my dad would be more of the curtisonthebay side of the thought spectrum on this issue.
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:52 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by reckless
Jason, you miss the point.

God, Christmas, Christians and Jews are being institutionally attacked by 'establishment' entities the world over: in government, in popular media outlets, in the entertainment and culture industry and to a too large extent, in the feckless yet powerful Fortune 1000 corporate entities and elites.
Liberals are being attacked institutionally on Paceadvantage

I get what you're saying though.

God/Christianity were pretty teflon for a long time so I imagine it's difficult now if you're a believer to see a large number of people who are not only vocal against your beliefs, but are nasty and derogatory towards your beliefs.
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:57 AM   #49
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It's a complicated topic (this transitioning 'stuff')

I guess that jumping into religious or political stuff is one way to avoid thinking about it.
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Old 02-03-2015, 08:04 AM   #50
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Liberals are being attacked institutionally on Paceadvantage
Really? I haven't noticed, Jason.
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:31 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by jballscalls
I talk with him about it, listen to his reasons and concerns and support whatever he decides to do. It's not like he's hurting anyone. I would want my father to be happy.

Certainly it would be difficult in the sense that it's a very huge change, but it's not my decision to make. And I'd be concerned that my father would face discrimination and hate like we've seen in this thread, and I'd share that concern with him.

My dad died when he was 47 and i'm trying to imagine having this conversation with him and it made me laugh cause my dad would be more of the curtisonthebay side of the thought spectrum on this issue.
Same here, my dad died when he was 39 and wasn't what you would call open minded.

Personally I don't think you can change who you are. Okay you can change how you dress, put on makeup, wear jewelry and high heels and women's clothes if that makes you feel better, but you're still the same person.
Once you start trying to change things like with hormones or surgery I think it is another matter and I can't see how it would lead to happiness. My thinking is just be yourself and people should respect that even if who you are is a bit outside the mainstream.
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:37 AM   #52
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Same here, my dad died when he was 39 and wasn't what you would call open minded.

Personally I don't think you can change who you are. Okay you can change how you dress, put on makeup, wear jewelry and high heels and women's clothes if that makes you feel better, but you're still the same person.
Once you start trying to change things like with hormones or surgery I think it is another matter and I can't see how it would lead to happiness. My thinking is just be yourself and people should respect that even if who you are is a bit outside the mainstream.
I think I agree with everything you said, with one small exception. The "who you are" is the opposite sex than your body. I trans person (m to f for example) has male parts but feels as though they're a woman. So they wouldn't be changing "who they are", they're just changing their body to match who they are.

sorry to hear about your dad. I know I miss mine each day.
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:47 AM   #53
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Bruce Jenner wants to become a woman? Yeah I suppose the next thing your going to tell me is that OJ Simpson is a murderer.
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:00 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by reckless
Jason, you miss the point.

God, Christmas, Christians and Jews are being institutionally attacked by 'establishment' entities the world over: in government, in popular media outlets, in the entertainment and culture industry and to a too large extent, in the feckless yet powerful Fortune 1000 corporate entities and elites.
God is being attacked? The all-powerful creator of the universe? Poor baby.
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:09 AM   #55
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Liberals are being attacked institutionally on Paceadvantage
Most here should be institutionalized!
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:11 AM   #56
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Jason, a serious question, since you've worked with these men and women. Can I ask you.. what is the suicide rate among the transgender population? I would guess that it is higher than the normal rate. Is there a breakdown of statistical data that would indicate the rate before transition and after a successful transition. .... As we've both noted, this is a lengthy process, a grueling one. And not everyone is deemed a surgical candidate.

I believe there's tremendous wisdom in what ArlingtonJim has written.
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:28 AM   #57
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Jason, a serious question, since you've worked with these men and women. Can I ask you.. what is the suicide rate among the transgender population? I would guess that it is higher than the normal rate. Is there a breakdown of statistical data that would indicate the rate before transition and after a successful transition. .... As we've both noted, this is a lengthy process, a grueling one. And not everyone is deemed a surgical candidate.

I believe there's tremendous wisdom in what ArlingtonJim has written.
It's like 9 or 10 times the rate for transgender folks in terms of attempts. The number I remember was 40% of people who are transgender or gender non-conforming have attempted suicide.
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:48 AM   #58
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... gender non-conforming...
I don't know what this means but it's an entertaining sequence of words. They'll probably need to re-brand that one eventually.
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Old 02-03-2015, 11:11 AM   #59
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Bruce Jenner is entitled to the "pursuit of happiness", as we all are...and he is free to go as far as he chooses in order to find it -- as long as he isn't infringing on the rights of others, in the process. But why the need to keep the world tuned in to his "momentous journey"? IMO..."private lives" are called that for a reason.
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Old 02-03-2015, 12:43 PM   #60
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It's like 9 or 10 times the rate for transgender folks in terms of attempts. The number I remember was 40% of people who are transgender or gender non-conforming have attempted suicide.
I was hoping it wasn't that high. This is really sad.

I agree with what Thask has written. Private lives are better. I don't understand Jenner's need to chronicle "the long and winding road". I will say, though, I'm not sure I'll read it. Part of me thinks its like looking at a YouTube video, as I did a day or so ago. Now and then, we wish we could unlook at something..
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