My issue with the Pacific Classic/Baffert

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

OK, but that is a far cry from Bob yesterday IMO. He looked gutted, almost like Arrogate had been pulled up on the backstretch.

To inject a note of sympathy for Baffert, I am in a business myself where we have multiple clients, and you don't want to be spiking the football too much on one client's behalf if at the same time another client's case just got dismissed or had to be settled on unfavorable terms or whatever.

It's actually a somewhat hard balance to maintain when there's both good news and bad news for two different clients. I'm not saying Baffert did a good job of it here (he didn't), but it's actually not easy.

[cj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

To inject a note of sympathy for Baffert, I am in a business myself where we have multiple clients, and you don't want to be spiking the football too much on one client's behalf if at the same time another client's case just got dismissed or had to be settled on unfavorable terms or whatever.

It's actually a somewhat hard balance to maintain when there's both good news and bad news for two different clients. I'm not saying Baffert did a good job of it here (he didn't), but it's actually not easy.

That is the point. He didn't not do a good job, he did a horrible job of it. It was almost painful to watch. If I owned the other horse I'd be following in Kaleem Shah's footsteps.

I'm still trying to figure out how he talked the owners of Cupid, romping winner of the G1 Santa Anita Gold Cup last out, into running in some weak ass overnight stakes this Wednesday.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

On number 2, I thought it is possible the people who say he doesn't like the track have a point. He was asked to run several tims and didn't respond. He is a competitor, so he finally tried to gut it out in the stretch, but this race totally looked like what a good horse who dislikes a surface might do.

Look at his stride going by the stands the first time. It was a nice, smooth, extended stride. That's not a horse not liking the surface.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by AndyC

As to #1, I completely understand his reaction. Arrogate was/is considered to be the best horse in the world and with a couple of more significant wins might have been in the conversation as one of the best of all time. Say what you want but it must be incredibly deflating to have such a horse lose again. It certainly had to have been far more emotionally devastating than the win for Collected was uplifting.

Maybe, but you want and expect your trainer to be happy with your horse winning. I imagine they understand to a point, but also not too happy about it. What conclusion can you draw except that your trainer wanted to beat your horse with his other one?

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Maybe, but you want and expect your trainer to be happy with your horse winning. I imagine they understand to a point, but also not too happy about it. What conclusion can you draw except that your trainer wanted to beat your horse with his other one?

Just think how unhappy he would have been if his other horse hadn't won. Not knowing what the relationship is between Baffert and the winning owner I can only speculate how the owner feels about Bob's reaction. But really, what kind of snowflake owner needs more than a trip to the winner's circle and a large check? Baffert was hired to do exactly what he did with the winner, prep him to run a top race. I am not sure if coddling and being eternally cheerful was part of the deal.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Look at his stride going by the stands the first time. It was a nice, smooth, extended stride. That's not a horse not liking the surface.

It's almost like we watched two different races.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Just think how unhappy he would have been if his other horse hadn't won. Not knowing what the relationship is between Baffert and the winning owner I can only speculate how the owner feels about Bob's reaction. But really, what kind of snowflake owner needs more than a trip to the winner's circle and a large check? Baffert was hired to do exactly what he did with the winner, prep him to run a top race. I am not sure if coddling and being eternally cheerful was part of the deal.

It's not being coddled the expect your trainer to be happy that your horse won. When there are two or more entered, you're expected to be equally happy whichever one wins. You fake it if need be.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

It's almost like we watched two different races.

Maybe we did, but I made particular note of his stride right out of the gate. He was moving great.

Mike has said it wasn't the track, and Baffert also gives different reasoning for his performance, so maybe we can quit debating that it was the track.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

It's not being coddled the expect your trainer to be happy that your horse won. When there are two or more entered, you're expected to be equally happy whichever one wins. You fake it if need be.

What we don't know is how he acted when face to face with the winning owners. How was he in the winner's circle?

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by AndyC

What we don't know is how he acted when face to face with the winning owners. How was he in the winner's circle?

I looked for the WC on the telecast but they didn't show it that I saw. I've read other discussions about this exact thing and there are people saying that he looked like he just learned his best friend died in the WC.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

It's almost like we watched two different races.

Yeah, I am with Dahoss on this. Arrogate definitely didn't look like he was having a great time out there, at least until he got going at the very end of the race.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Maybe we did, but I made particular note of his stride right out of the gate. He was moving great.

Mike has said it wasn't the track, and Baffert also gives different reasoning for his performance, so maybe we can quit debating that it was the track.

Mike Smith told Mike Joyce of TVG right after the race that he never got a hold of the track. He said it looked like he got a hold of it but that was because the horse in front of him was stopping.

When asked if it's because he doesn't like the surface his answer was "could be."

I'll take his word over yours.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

Mike Smith told Mike Joyce of TVG right after the race that he never got a hold of the track. He said it looked like he got a hold of it but that was because the horse in front of him was stopping.

When asked if it's because he doesn't like the surface his answer was "could be."

I'll take his word over yours.

Yes, and he said on the radio this morning that it wasn't the track, but instead the horse frustratingly not always with his mind in the game. He finally got it in the game, hence why he again looked good (with long stretching stride) in the final 16th.

So I'm taking Mike's word too. But thanks for playing.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Yes, and he said on the radio this morning that it wasn't the track, but instead the horse frustratingly not always with his mind in the game. He finally got it in the game, hence why he again looked good (with long stretching stride) in the final 16th.

So I'm taking Mike's word too. But thanks for playing.

Yawn.

He was swimming around the turn. We don't agree (good for me) and we never do.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

Yawn.

He was swimming around the turn.

No kidding, pal.

You said his stride never looked good, and that's where you were wrong. He looked good the entire time except for the turn and top of the stretch.

You've shown very little aptitude for actual horses and their movement. I select horses at 2yoIT sales and watch works for a living, so I'm comfortable with stating what was there, which lo and behold, both Smith and Baffert agreed with.