Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

I hope this is your interpretation, and not someone with letters behind their name in a position to instruct others. I can forgive your non-fluent approach to the Hebrew and Christian scriptures, since the presupposed goal of deconstructing biblical coherence is misguided from the start. Much better to come from a position of grasping generally agreed upon Christian understandings of scripture (e.g., through cross-referencing) in order to offer serious challenges. Yet that requires study--much easier to cite literal contradictions from a supposed dictating author rather than consider different secondary authors, theological emphasis, intended audience, contexts, genres, issues, topics addressed, geography, cultures, customs, contemporary political situations, as with any other historical literature...

https://books.google.com/books?id=sZ...rature&f=false

...Shakespeare--what a hack.

The washing of hands had nothing to do with hygiene. It was a symbol within the rite of purification of one's internal moral purity when approaching YHWH...(Ex 30:17-21)...

https://www.blueletterbible.org/rsv/exo/30/17/s_80017
... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual...cation#Judaism

Oh...you're on a roll today, Doc!

[Buckeye]

I second that.

It's not that complicated, get down on your knees.

Unless we should be worshiping . . .

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Surely you're not suggesting that one can't learn from the written word, which is the main way we communicate on the internet?
I find internet discussions such as these informative.

If one disagrees vehemently with bible-as-revelation, but whose curiosity is piqued by Mark 7 regarding Jesus' practical knowledge, he could consult easily available Christian commentary to understand the background and motivation for it's inclusion in the gospel.

If one wants to add a pinch of condescending Christian-as-knuckle-dragging-Neanderthal snark to his toolbox, he consults his Jesus mythicist guru, Richard Carrier...

YouTube

Never mind that the author had theological goals in mind (Jesus as the authentic interpreter of the Law; internal conversion and purity vs. the stress on external observance only).

The overarching issue of Jesus' refusal to be a "Bread King" (Mt 4:3) and the mystery of suffering and evil, better addressed by his own encounter with same, is subordinated to yet another opportunity to state that "If I were God, I'd have done a better job".

Or if one merely became curious about 1st century Near Eastern hygiene when encountering Mark 7, they weren't slinging feces at the monkey house...

https://womenfromthebook.com/2013/01...s-of-the-past/

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

If one disagrees vehemently with bible-as-revelation, but whose curiosity is piqued by Mark 7 regarding Jesus' practical knowledge, he could consult easily available Christian commentary to understand the background and motivation for it's inclusion in the gospel.

If one wants to add a pinch of condescending Christian-as-knuckle-dragging-Neanderthal snark to his toolbox, he consults his Jesus mythicist guru, Richard Carrier...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFGT...outu.be&t=1107

Never mind that the author had theological goals in mind (Jesus as the authentic interpreter of the Law; internal conversion and purity vs. the stress on external observance only).

The overarching issue of Jesus' refusal to be a "Bread King" (Mt 4:3) and the mystery of suffering and evil, better addressed by his own encounter with same, is subordinated to yet another opportunity to state that "If I were God, I'd have done a better job".

Or if one merely became curious about 1st century Near Eastern hygiene when encountering Mark 7, they weren't slinging feces at the monkey house...

https://womenfromthebook.com/2013/01...s-of-the-past/

Fox is a rare breed on the web. The majority of people are interested in only what they have to say. Fox, on the other hand, evidently reads, with the intention of understanding, what others are saying.

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Fox is a rare breed on the web. The majority of people are interested in only what they have to say. Fox, on the other hand, evidently reads, with the intention of understanding, what others are saying.

That is my impression of Greyfox. I hoped to exemplify your second sentence with my response.

[VigorsTheGrey]

“When the emphasis oflife is put on the 'beyond' rather than on life itself* when it is put on nothingness -, then the emphasis has been completely removed from life. The enormous lie of personal immortality destroys all reason, everything natural in the instincts, - everything beneficial and life-enhancing in the instincts, everything that guarantees the future, now arouses mistrust. To live in this way, so that there is no point to life any more, this now becomes the 'meaning' oflife . . . What is the point ofpublic spirit, of being grateful for your lineage or for your ancestors, what is the point of working together, of confidence, of working towards any sort of common goal or even keeping one in mind? . . . These are all so many 'temptations', so many diversions from the 'proper path' - 'one thing is necessary' . . . That as immortal souls, everyone is on the same level as everyone else, that in the commonality of all beings, the 'salvation' of each individual lays claim to an eternal significance, that the small-minded and the half-mad can think well of themselves, that the laws of nature are constantly broken for their sake - you cannot heap enough contempt on this, every type of selfishness increasing shamelessly to the point of in nity. And yet Christianity owes its victory to this miserable flattery of personal vanity, - it is precisely the failures, the rebellion-prone, the badly developed, all the rejects and dejects ofhumanity, that Christianity has won over by these means. 'Salvation ofthe soul' - in plain language: 'the world revolves around me' . . . The poisonous doctrine 'equal rights for everyone' - Christianity disseminated this the most thoroughly; from out of the most secret corners of its bad instincts, Christianity has waged a deadly war on every feeling of respect and distance between people, which is to say the presupposition of every elevation, of every growth of culture, - it has used the ressentiment of the masses as its main weapon a g a i n s t u s , a g a i n s t e v e r y t h i n g o n e a r t h t h a t i s n o b l e , j o y fu l , m a g n a n i m o u s , against our happiness on earth . . .

Granting 'immortality' to every Tom, Dick, and Harry has been the most enormous and most vicious attempt to assassinate noble humanity. - And let us not underestimate the disaster that Christianity has brought even into politics! Nobody is courageous enough for special privileges these days, for the rights of the masters, for feelings of self-respect and respect among equals - for a pathos ofdistance . . . 20 Our politics is sick from this lack of courage! - The aristocraticism of mind has been undermined at its depths by the lie of the equality of souls; and when the belief in the 'privileges of the majority' creates (and it will create) revolutions, do not doubt for a minute that it is Christianity, that it is Christian value judgments these revolutions are translating into blood and crimes! Christianity is a rebellion of everything that crawls on the ground against everything that has height: the evangel of the 'lowly' makes things lower”. . .Nietzche

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

“When the emphasis oflife is put on the 'beyond' rather than on life itself* when it is put on nothingness -, then the emphasis has been completely removed from life. The enormous lie of personal immortality destroys all reason, everything natural in the instincts, - everything beneficial and life-enhancing in the instincts, everything that guarantees the future, now arouses mistrust. To live in this way, so that there is no point to life any more, this now becomes the 'meaning' oflife . . . What is the point ofpublic spirit, of being grateful for your lineage or for your ancestors, what is the point of working together, of confidence, of working towards any sort of common goal or even keeping one in mind? . . . These are all so many 'temptations', so many diversions from the 'proper path' - 'one thing is necessary' . . . That as immortal souls, everyone is on the same level as everyone else, that in the commonality of all beings, the 'salvation' of each individual lays claim to an eternal significance, that the small-minded and the half-mad can think well of themselves, that the laws of nature are constantly broken for their sake - you cannot heap enough contempt on this, every type of selfishness increasing shamelessly to the point of in nity. And yet Christianity owes its victory to this miserable flattery of personal vanity, - it is precisely the failures, the rebellion-prone, the badly developed, all the rejects and dejects ofhumanity, that Christianity has won over by these means. 'Salvation ofthe soul' - in plain language: 'the world revolves around me' . . . The poisonous doctrine 'equal rights for everyone' - Christianity disseminated this the most thoroughly; from out of the most secret corners of its bad instincts, Christianity has waged a deadly war on every feeling of respect and distance between people, which is to say the presupposition of every elevation, of every growth of culture, - it has used the ressentiment of the masses as its main weapon a g a i n s t u s , a g a i n s t e v e r y t h i n g o n e a r t h t h a t i s n o b l e , j o y fu l , m a g n a n i m o u s , against our happiness on earth . . .

Granting 'immortality' to every Tom, Dick, and Harry has been the most enormous and most vicious attempt to assassinate noble humanity. - And let us not underestimate the disaster that Christianity has brought even into politics! Nobody is courageous enough for special privileges these days, for the rights of the masters, for feelings of self-respect and respect among equals - for a pathos ofdistance . . . 20 Our politics is sick from this lack of courage! - The aristocraticism of mind has been undermined at its depths by the lie of the equality of souls; and when the belief in the 'privileges of the majority' creates (and it will create) revolutions, do not doubt for a minute that it is Christianity, that it is Christian value judgments these revolutions are translating into blood and crimes! Christianity is a rebellion of everything that crawls on the ground against everything that has height: the evangel of the 'lowly' makes things lower”. . .Nietzche

Can you explain to us how death (immortality) brings nobility or dignity to humanity?

[Buckeye]

There is no life without a Creator of life (and Death) so I guess we're just stuck.

I wish I went to Theological School.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Buckeye

I wish I went to Theological School.

Where would you find the time? I mean...you've studied everything else.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Can you explain to us how death (immortality) brings nobility or dignity to humanity?

Correction: I meant to say "mortality". How does death (mortality) bring nobility or dignity to humanity?

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Where would you find the time? I mean...you've studied everything else.

Buckeye the renaissance man.

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

“When the emphasis oflife is put on the 'beyond' rather than on life itself* when it is put on nothingness -, then the emphasis has been completely removed from life. The enormous lie of personal immortality destroys all reason, everything natural in the instincts, - everything beneficial and life-enhancing in the instincts, everything that guarantees the future, now arouses mistrust. To live in this way, so that there is no point to life any more, this now becomes the 'meaning' oflife . . . What is the point ofpublic spirit, of being grateful for your lineage or for your ancestors, what is the point of working together, of confidence, of working towards any sort of common goal or even keeping one in mind? . . . These are all so many 'temptations', so many diversions from the 'proper path' - 'one thing is necessary' . . . That as immortal souls, everyone is on the same level as everyone else, that in the commonality of all beings, the 'salvation' of each individual lays claim to an eternal significance, that the small-minded and the half-mad can think well of themselves, that the laws of nature are constantly broken for their sake - you cannot heap enough contempt on this, every type of selfishness increasing shamelessly to the point of in nity. And yet Christianity owes its victory to this miserable flattery of personal vanity, - it is precisely the failures, the rebellion-prone, the badly developed, all the rejects and dejects ofhumanity, that Christianity has won over by these means. 'Salvation ofthe soul' - in plain language: 'the world revolves around me' . . . The poisonous doctrine 'equal rights for everyone' - Christianity disseminated this the most thoroughly; from out of the most secret corners of its bad instincts, Christianity has waged a deadly war on every feeling of respect and distance between people, which is to say the presupposition of every elevation, of every growth of culture, - it has used the ressentiment of the masses as its main weapon a g a i n s t u s , a g a i n s t e v e r y t h i n g o n e a r t h t h a t i s n o b l e , j o y fu l , m a g n a n i m o u s , against our happiness on earth . . .

Granting 'immortality' to every Tom, Dick, and Harry has been the most enormous and most vicious attempt to assassinate noble humanity. - And let us not underestimate the disaster that Christianity has brought even into politics! Nobody is courageous enough for special privileges these days, for the rights of the masters, for feelings of self-respect and respect among equals - for a pathos ofdistance . . . 20 Our politics is sick from this lack of courage! - The aristocraticism of mind has been undermined at its depths by the lie of the equality of souls; and when the belief in the 'privileges of the majority' creates (and it will create) revolutions, do not doubt for a minute that it is Christianity, that it is Christian value judgments these revolutions are translating into blood and crimes! Christianity is a rebellion of everything that crawls on the ground against everything that has height: the evangel of the 'lowly' makes things lower”. . .Nietzche

You're free to take down Christianity with Nietzsche. I'm just expecting that you'll allow him to take down New Atheist, "Nice nihilism" as well...

http://216.92.33.211/forum/showpost....postcount=2497

https://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/nice-nihilism/

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Correction: I meant to say "mortality". How does death (mortality) bring nobility or dignity to humanity?

That's an excellent question since mortality brings meaning to life. The second part of your question: the Lord Our God will answer that.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Buckeye

That's an excellent question since mortality brings meaning to life. The second part of your question: the Lord Our God will answer that.

To the vast majority of people in the world (even religious ones), death is as natural as breathing. But to born again believers, death is so unnatural that it is also said in scripture to be the "last enemy" of God (1Cor 15:26) -- who is the Author of all Life. Death is so abhorrent to God that Jesus also said that "God is the not God of the [spiritually] dead but of the living" (Mat 22:32b).

[Buckeye]

I feel better than ever boxcar.