NFL Passing yards vs Automatic inclusion in HOF - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Stillriledup · 03-23-2015, 05:00 PM

At what point does a QB automatically become a HOFer with just passing yards as the benchmark? Is it now 50,000? Vinny Testaverde has 46,000 yards and is not in the HOF even though some QBs who have less passing yards are in there.

Eli and Ben will get into the 40k club next season (Eli might make it into the club in Week 1) and Phil Rivers should probably get 40k in the final few weeks of the season, do any of these guys have HOF aspirations? If Eli has a few more years he will reach 50k in yards and has more than 1 ring (defeating Brady twice) so that's probably going to get him in.

Ben? I guess he gets in too at some point if he has a few more years and can pile up some more yards, same with Rivers.

Marshall Bennett · 03-23-2015, 07:21 PM

Years ago good quarterbacks lacked the advantage of playing with today's pass-crazy offenses. Leadership played much more of a role, most called their own game (plays). It's almost like comparing fullbacks in those days such as Jim Brown or Jim Taylor to today's fullbacks which are basically there for blocking purposes and short yardage plays.
Had Bart Starr or Johnny Unitas played today, their numbers would be a lot higher. Fran Tarkenton's numbers would have been a whole lot higher.
It's almost like in baseball comparing relief pitchers (closers) today with relief pitchers 50 years ago that were considered more or less a cut below starters as quality pitchers.

thaskalos · 03-23-2015, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

At what point does a QB automatically become a HOFer with just passing yards as the benchmark? Is it now 50,000? Vinny Testaverde has 46,000 yards and is not in the HOF even though some QBs who have less passing yards are in there.

Eli and Ben will get into the 40k club next season (Eli might make it into the club in Week 1) and Phil Rivers should probably get 40k in the final few weeks of the season, do any of these guys have HOF aspirations? If Eli has a few more years he will reach 50k in yards and has more than 1 ring (defeating Brady twice) so that's probably going to get him in.

Ben? I guess he gets in too at some point if he has a few more years and can pile up some more yards, same with Rivers.

Take a quarterback's interceptions, and multiply them by 200. If the total exceeds his passing yards, then keep him out of the HOF...no matter HOW many passing yards he has.

Valuist · 03-23-2015, 08:45 PM

Passing yardage is an overrated stat. Many times the team that throws for more yards ends up losing the game. But they get to face the 4th quarter prevent, and systematically march down the field.

thaskalos · 03-23-2015, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valuist

Passing yardage is an overrated stat. Many times the team that throws for more yards ends up losing the game. But they get to face the 4th quarter prevent, and systematically march down the field.

Even total yardage is an overrated stat. Sometimes a team gets blown out...and it has almost as many total yards as the winning team.

proximity · 03-23-2015, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

At what point does a QB automatically become a HOFer with just passing yards as the benchmark? Is it now 50,000? Vinny Testaverde has 46,000 yards and is not in the HOF even though some QBs who have less passing yards are in there.

based on this alone and nothing else i'd say you better be in the top 5 all time when you retire.

all time passing yards rank at retirement of 15 hall of fame qbs....

marino (1), tarkenton (1), unitas (1), tittle (1), elway (2), fouts (2), moon (3), montana (4), jurgenson (4), dawson (9), namath (10), kelly (10), bradshaw (13), young (16), aikman (20)

median rank at retirement: 4th

testaverde (6)

Stillriledup · 03-24-2015, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proximity

based on this alone and nothing else i'd say you better be in the top 5 all time when you retire.

all time passing yards rank at retirement of 15 hall of fame qbs....

marino (1), tarkenton (1), unitas (1), tittle (1), elway (2), fouts (2), moon (3), montana (4), jurgenson (4), dawson (9), namath (10), kelly (10), bradshaw (13), young (16), aikman (20)

median rank at retirement: 4th

testaverde (6)

Interesting that every HOF QB on your list is still alive.

proximity · 03-24-2015, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Interesting that every HOF QB on your list is still alive.

no, unfortunately jonnny unitas is no longer with us.

colts power!

tucker6 · 03-24-2015, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

At what point does a QB automatically become a HOFer with just passing yards as the benchmark? Is it now 50,000? Vinny Testaverde has 46,000 yards and is not in the HOF even though some QBs who have less passing yards are in there.

Eli and Ben will get into the 40k club next season (Eli might make it into the club in Week 1) and Phil Rivers should probably get 40k in the final few weeks of the season, do any of these guys have HOF aspirations? If Eli has a few more years he will reach 50k in yards and has more than 1 ring (defeating Brady twice) so that's probably going to get him in.

Ben? I guess he gets in too at some point if he has a few more years and can pile up some more yards, same with Rivers.

Ben's chances for the HOF are waaaay better than Eli's. Look up the stats.

rastajenk · 03-24-2015, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valuist

Passing yardage is an overrated stat. Many times the team that throws for more yards ends up losing the game. But they get to face the 4th quarter prevent, and systematically march down the field.

I agree, but those situations are more significant in game-to-handicapping, or examining season stats, or even as a symptom of a down period in a franchise's cycle; in other words, it doesn't have as much to do with a Hall of Fame conversation. Guys like Jeff George may have padded stats but aren't close to a subjective, moving HOF cut-line. Vinny may have been one of those guys, I don't remember him that way, but he did play a long time. Carson Palmer seems like he could be a current example; nobody's talking about him being a Famer.

All I meant to say was, qb's that are seriously in the HOF conversation have earned most of their yards winning games, and important ones at that, and not loading up on cheap ones.

Stillriledup · 03-24-2015, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proximity

no, unfortunately jonnny unitas is no longer with us.

colts power!

Oops. My bad.

Stillriledup · 03-24-2015, 04:42 PM

So, generally, the HOF is mostly stats based but there's part of who gets elected that's not based on stats.....i think titles help your stats, but titles are team based, marino didn't win a title, but still made the HOF.

For a player like Testaverde...who has 46k passing yards, that means you need "something else" that's not numerically based...what does Testeverde NOT have that he needed to get into the HOF...is it just perception?

Maximillion · 03-24-2015, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

So, generally, the HOF is mostly stats based but there's part of who gets elected that's not based on stats.....i think titles help your stats, but titles are team based, marino didn't win a title, but still made the HOF.

For a player like Testaverde...who has 46k passing yards, that means you need "something else" that's not numerically based...what does Testeverde NOT have that he needed to get into the HOF...is it just perception?

imo it should be based largely on the period of time the qb was considered among the very best in the game.....maybe something between a 5-10 year window.
The light came on late for Testaverde....and i think there was really only one year in his whole career that would put him in that category (and even thats probably a stretch)
Dave Krieg im pretty sure ranked high on that list for a number of years....nice story,but its the HOF and not the hall of decent for a very long time.

tucker6 · 03-24-2015, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

what does Testeverde NOT have that he needed to get into the HOF...

Vinnie was average to above average his whole career. Had a career passer rating of 75.0. Had 275 TD's and 267 Ints. Not good. His yards came over a 21 year career, so the yards are deceiving.

What I'm looking for is a QB to have a minimum of a 8-10 year window of excellence where they were well above average in the time period they played. No judging against difference eras, but against their own. Using that criteria, current players that will get into the HOF are Peyton, Brady, and Brees. With more time, Rodgers and probably Big Ben joins them. Luck is way to young for this discussion. Honestly, I think Rivers has had a better career than Eli, but without the hardware. They both need more work, but if they do in the next five what they've done the last ten, I'd take Rivers into the HOF over Eli even without a SB.

Maximillion · 03-24-2015, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tucker6

Vinnie was average to above average his whole career. Had a career passer rating of 75.0. Had 275 TD's and 267 Ints. Not good. His yards came over a 21 year career, so the yards are deceiving.

What I'm looking for is a QB to have a minimum of a 8-10 year window of excellence where they were well above average in the time period they played. No judging against difference eras, but against their own. Using that criteria, current players that will get into the HOF are Peyton, Brady, and Brees. With more time, Rodgers and probably Big Ben joins them. Luck is way to young for this discussion. Honestly, I think Rivers has had a better career than Eli, but without the hardware. They both need more work, but if they do in the next five what they've done the last ten, I'd take Rivers into the HOF over Eli even without a SB.

Kurt Warner is an interesting case...a career unlike any other.
Maybe a 5 year period of excellence at 2 different stages....I would vote yes.