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03-10-2012, 08:37 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 80
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HOF
Bill Finley brought up some interesting points with his article on Ghostzapper this week. With many of the best horses in racing having shortened careers for one reason or another, it will be interesting to see how some voters view these horses. So I ask you at PA, do you think any of these horses deserve to be in the HOF, with one horse that I know will bring a lot of controversy:
Smarty Jones
Afleet Alex
Invasor
Bernardini
Rags to Riches
Barbaro
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03-10-2012, 10:07 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,264
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I would probably not put any of them in. I haven't seen any horses in recent times that i'd call great.
With no real Handicap Races,where horses have to give weight and most good horses ducking each other till the Breeders Cup,I find it hard to call any of them great.
In my opinion a horse should have at the minimum ,15-20 races in a career before it can be called great.
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03-10-2012, 10:30 AM
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#3
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,887
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Invasor, he is the best!
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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03-10-2012, 11:21 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,614
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I would definitely vote for Invasor.
All the rest were on the verge of greatness, but it's harder to justify.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
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03-10-2012, 11:26 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,911
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Given how we have Derby and Classic winners barely breaking 100 on the Beyer scale, I don't know how you can dismiss Zapper and his 110's & 120 because he didn't run as many races as 1930's claimers.
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03-10-2012, 12:46 PM
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#6
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
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Horses today are prima donnas.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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03-11-2012, 12:00 AM
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#7
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,651
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by postpicker
Smarty Jones
Afleet Alex
Invasor
Bernardini
Rags to Riches
Barbaro
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Nope
Nope
Yes
Nope
Nope
Would like to, but can't...
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03-11-2012, 12:13 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,053
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I can't really remember what sort of figures Invasor put up, but I do remember him beating Wanderin Boy, A.P. Arrow, Wild Desert and Sun King. Of course, those lofty achievements are tempered by the fact that he was beaten a pole by Discreet Cat.
Huge thumbs down.
Rags To Riches accomplished about as much as Winning Colors, who I have no idea if she's in the HOF or not.
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03-11-2012, 12:21 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,056
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Spalding No!
I can't really remember what sort of figures Invasor put up, but I do remember him beating Wanderin Boy, A.P. Arrow, Wild Desert and Sun King. Of course, those lofty achievements are tempered by the fact that he was beaten a pole by Discreet Cat.
Huge thumbs down.
Rags To Riches accomplished about as much as Winning Colors, who I have no idea if she's in the HOF or not.
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Of course Invasor came back and drubbed Discreet Cat.....
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03-11-2012, 12:29 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,053
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by affirmedny
Of course Invasor came back and drubbed Discreet Cat.....
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A lot of horses drubbed Discreet Cat when he finally reappeared.
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03-11-2012, 12:30 AM
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#11
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,651
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Spalding No!
I can't really remember what sort of figures Invasor put up, but I do remember him beating Wanderin Boy, A.P. Arrow, Wild Desert and Sun King. Of course, those lofty achievements are tempered by the fact that he was beaten a pole by Discreet Cat.
Huge thumbs down.
Rags To Riches accomplished about as much as Winning Colors, who I have no idea if she's in the HOF or not.
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Rags To Riches raced seven times. Las Virgenes, SA Oaks, Kentucky Oaks and Belmont Stakes were her stakes wins.
Winning Colors is in the HOF (2000). Raced 19 times...won 8...SA Oaks, SA Derby, Kentucky Derby, Turfway BC Stakes (now Kentucky Cup Distaff). Had the unfortunate luck of running into Personal Ensign twice along the way, running to within a whisker of her in the BC Distaff.
Invasor:
Won 11 of 12 lifetime including:
Suburban
Pimlico Special
Whitney
BC Classic
Dubai World Cup
Donn Handicap
After review, I still say thumbs down to RTR and thumbs up to Invasor.
Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 03-11-2012 at 12:32 AM.
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03-11-2012, 10:13 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 862
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What hurts Smarty Jones' chances is he was never allowed to be a handicap horse.
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03-11-2012, 10:57 AM
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#13
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Slope Handicapping ™
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mount Holly, New Jersey
Posts: 1,120
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MickJ26
What hurts Smarty Jones' chances is he was never ABLE to be a handicap horse.
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FTFY
Smarty was retired because he was physically crippled after the Triple Crown run. He still wasn't walking right when they did a short feature of him for the following year's Kentucky Derby. When they realized he wasn't making it back to the track in 2004 and probably a good portion of 2005, they made the deal to send him to stud. The Chapman's would have loved to continue running him into his 4yo season.
__________________
Slope Handicapping ™ - winning since 2005
Our learning institutions only want diversity in appearances, not in thoughts.
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03-11-2012, 10:17 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 862
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rise Over Run
FTFY
Smarty was retired because he was physically crippled after the Triple Crown run. He still wasn't walking right when they did a short feature of him for the following year's Kentucky Derby. When they realized he wasn't making it back to the track in 2004 and probably a good portion of 2005, they made the deal to send him to stud. The Chapman's would have loved to continue running him into his 4yo season.
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I wasn't aware of that. I thought he was retired immediately after the Belmont. I stand corrected. What does FTFY stand for?
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03-11-2012, 10:22 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 946
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Nope
Nope
Yes
Nope
Nope
Would like to, but can't...
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Ditto all of the above
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