Invisable Hand Screws up

[JustRalph]

Why is olbermann not screaming for the arrest of grandson for open air burning of trash. An obvious environmental crime of felony proportions

[Steve 'StatMan']

Very tough sitution. All I can say for now is that the situation may have been different it human beings were trapped inside the burning building. (Why the person did/couldn't get their pets out, I don't know.) They did know it was a pay-for service and chose not to. It is sad, of course. Don't know if they had insurance on their home, and if they did, would it be void if they didn't have fire protection 'available'. I can't blame the fire-fighters themselves, they were not authorized to fight the fire with the equipment they had with them/on them. To me, if you knowing choose to live there, and choose not to pay/don't pay/forget to pay the firefighting fee that you clearly know about, you have no legal gripe, just a very sad story to tell. To live in that area, one needs to buy that as part of 'fire insurance'.

[Tom]

To me, this the mafia and having to pay protection.
To stand there and watch someone's house burn down is criminal.
Has anyone ever sued over this?

What's next? Pay-for-police protection?
Let people drown who don't pay lifeguard protection money?

You see the NYFD march to their deaths in burning towers, never questioning it. Don't insult them by calling these pigs fireman.

[Tom]

To me, if you knowing choose to live there, and choose not to pay/don't pay/forget to pay the firefighting fee that you clearly know about, you have no legal gripe, just a very sad story to tell. To live in that area, one needs to buy that as part of 'fire insurance'.

They were told in NO to evacuate, they were told the levees could break, they were told over and over and many ignored it. Should we have left them on their roofs to fend for themselves? Are we not civilized enough to react in an emergency? And deal with financials later on?

[Steve 'StatMan']

Originally Posted by Tom

They were told in NO to evacuate, they were told the levees could break, they were told over and over and many ignored it. Should we have left them on their roofs to fend for themselves? Are we not civilized enough to react in an emergency? And deal with financials later on?

NO was different, thought the mass public was stupid for not leaving. This situation is one family, one house, no threat of death to humans (except the fire fighters!). I would hope if people were still inside that something would be done. As for just their possessions, that's something different.

People need to support their local fire districts financially, or live where they are protected by their local fire districts through their tax money.

The U.S. is not 100% fire-protected. State crews put out fires when they can but they often have to let homes burn, esp in cases where the fire surrounds the area. No one can guarantee your home or your land can be 100% saved from fire. Even with a community fire department.

This is a very tough sitation, and don't like it a bit. This is one of the tough sitiuation problems people make for themselves. No nice, easy answer.

[bigmack]

Hilarious how this is an issue as a result of another Mothership directive. HuffPost & ThinkProgress teed this up, hcap & the other dumdum's swing & miss.

What would anyone have to say knowing this rural area had no fire protection up until 20 years ago? When they started in '90 they axed $75/yr.

That's 20 years folk knowed about it.

Anyone falling for this being a right/left issue is a maroon.

[ArlJim78]

In the video it says that the fireman were told by the city manager what to do, or in this case what not to do.
Those folks took their chances, rolled the dice and it came up snake eyes. In these rural areas that work with volunteers and limited resources, tough decisions have to be made and everybody knew the rules. With the type of equipment they have, and the amount of time the fire had been burning, I'm not sure that there was much that they could have saved anyway. It looks to me like they might have even caused the fire by burning too close to the house. I feel bad for anyone whose house and belongings are lost to fire, but people have to take some responsibility as well and not take chances with their lives and home like that. The service charge amounts to 20 cents per day.

[boxcar]

Rookies

Doubt it, but you never know. Those moons could collide.

And back on, when did this 'self reliant', 'resourceful' 'proud' ethos EVER exist for all Americans ? I know you like pinning your hopes on the deadly 'Leave it to Beaver' era. You know, the one before the Civil Rights Act ?

Never said for all. But for a lot -- before people were seduced by the state in various ways to become hooked on entitlement programs.

Or those epistles on the virtues of the FF, who created all men equal under the Constitution, except for the ones counting @ 60% and the other gender. I'm always amused by those.

The fact is that no democracy, in its infancy, was close to perfect. All citizens were simply not included, many were shunned or worse. The same is true for both Judaism and Christianity. Terrible things were done in the name of Christ throughout human history. When I was growing up in the 60s, I always used to observe the biggest, immoral pricks in the community were those attending Mass every week. THAT was a life lesson about the chamelon of faith, whatever ones personal inclinations were.

No form of human government is perfect or was ever perfect or will ever be perfect, including socialism or communism. All our FF did was found a government that was the least of all known evils of the day. All forms of government are destined to fail because the world is largely godless and all men are sinners in this world.

And, yes, terrible things were done in Christ's name. Things that one could only understand through study of the scriptures. Mind you: I'm not excusing those things. All I'm saying is that the fact that they were done confirms what scripture predicted about the state of Christ's church at these end times. Sadly, the church in this New Covenant era differs not at all from the Old Covenant theocracy in Israel. Today's church is as apostate as the nation of Israel was before the first advent of Christ. In both eras, only a remnant were actually God's chosen people. As Jesus himself said, "many are called but few are chosen."

YOU may rely on these underpinnings to give you strength in life's tests. Most of us realize, that the world is far more complex and we need to use our own inner values, virtues and talents to survive and thrive, beyond those of our faith in God.

It's not as complex as you think when viewed through the scriptures. In fact, this seemingly insane world makes a lot of sense to many mature Christians. The bible tells us what to expect in these end days.

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by Tom

To me, this the mafia and having to pay protection.
To stand there and watch someone's house burn down is criminal.
Has anyone ever sued over this?

What's next? Pay-for-police protection?
Let people drown who don't pay lifeguard protection money?

You see the NYFD march to their deaths in burning towers, never questioning it. Don't insult them by calling these pigs fireman.

I gotta go with Tom on this one. A lousy 75 bucks is not enough to remove a sense of duty, or a responsibility to the community.....and the fact that they showed up and protected the property next door without fighting the other fire makes it malfeasance. The city manager should removed and prosecuted. The fire dept on scene commander likewise

Just my opine

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

IThe city manager should removed and prosecuted. The fire dept on scene commander likewise

Prosecuted for what?

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by bigmack

Hilarious how this is an issue as a result of another Mothership directive. HuffPost & ThinkProgress teed this up, hcap & the other dumdum's swing & miss.

What would anyone have to say knowing this rural area had no fire protection up until 20 years ago? When they started in '90 they axed $75/yr.

That's 20 years folk knowed about it.

Anyone falling for this being a right/left issue is a maroon.

People living in South Fulton supported the fire department through their taxes. People living outside that city did not. Therefore it is reasonable to ask them to pay a fee in order to receive fire protection services. Olbermann and Think Progress are wrong in saying those folks are paying a fee in addition to their taxes. Whatever taxes they pay do not go to the South Fulton fire department. The only person responsible for Mr. Cranick's misfortune is Mr. Cranick.

I would only say again that if a person or family could prove hardship, they could make arrangements to pay the fee over time or waive it. But at $75 a year it would be hard to imagine anyone being unable to pay and still owning a home.

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by mostpost

The only person responsible for Mr. Cranick's misfortune is Mr. Cranick.

Holy Cupcake, I can't believe North Riverside finally agrees with Palatine.

In line with my aforementioned jag on 'snarky, East Coast...', KO interviewed Mr. C. again today much like Gloria Allred and Nicky Diaz here in CA.

AKA. Media cyprian's holding 'little people' up; 'very, very, little' to make points that require point A to go to point Y.

KO interviewing Mr. C was as much as two worlds colliding as anything I've ever seen.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by bigmack

Holy Cupcake, I can't believe North Riverside finally agrees with Palatine.

In line with my aforementioned jag on 'snarky, East Coast...', KO interviewed Mr. C. again today much like Gloria Allred and Nicky Diaz here in CA.

AKA. Media cyprian's holding 'little people' up; 'very, very, little' to make points that require point A to go to point Y.

KO interviewing Mr. C was as much as two worlds colliding as anything I've ever seen.

Palatine? Are you one o' them Palatinian terrorists I keep reading about??

[eastie]

you know the rules up front....6 bits or tough shit.

[newtothegame]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

I gotta go with Tom on this one. A lousy 75 bucks is not enough to remove a sense of duty, or a responsibility to the community.....and the fact that they showed up and protected the property next door without fighting the other fire makes it malfeasance. The city manager should removed and prosecuted. The fire dept on scene commander likewise

Just my opine

Sorry...but I have to go the other way on this one. Volunteer Fire departments are funded almost entirely by the communities in which they serve. Their equipment and alot of their other items needed for the job are sometimes ponied up out of own pocket. We lived in a small community very much like this one in southern Ill some years ago.

75 dollars is a drop in the bucket for a YEARLY fee.

As to the moral responsibility...I partially agree Tom and Ralph. But where was the moral responsibility to support the fire department with the seventy five dollars?

And, if it is known in those outlying areas that "you don't really have to pay as they will take care of it anyways, why would ANYONE in those outlying areas pay it? Wouldnt the fire department have a moral obligation to take care of everyone regardless of pay or not?

I know its a tough stance to take but the fire dept shopwed up in case of human rescue was needed...(thats where I think their moral obligation ended).