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11-21-2010, 09:24 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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Extreme Pace by Examples
If anyone is a user of Extreme Pace by Randy Giles place your doodles in this thread for discussion. I'll start off with today's card at Calder. I'm new at this so, if you disagree with any of my doodles, please comment. Thanks.
Race 2 alw 5f 3up (20x3) P/c3 #4
e7 e/p3 p3 p/c3
e8 e/p3
e5
Race 4 clm 8f T 3upFM (31x1) s #7 S #10 S #13 mush
e3 e/p7 p5 p/c2 s
e6 e/p7 p4 p/c s
e/p6 p/c2 s
p/c3
Race 5 clm 8.3 f 3up (10x0) e/p5 #5 e/p4 #3 e/p3 #2 mush
e/p5 p/c3 s NA5
e/p4 p/c3 s
e/p3
race 8 clm 8f 3up (8x1) e8 #8
e8 e/p2 p/c s4
e/p3 p/c3 s5
p/c5
race 9 alw 8f 3up (35x3) p/c5 #5 P/c3 #10 mush?
e8 e/p3 p/c5 s
e8 e/p5 p/c3 s
e8 e/p3
e/p6
race 10 clm 8f 3upFM (13x2) e8 #6
e0 e/p3 s
e8 e/p5 s
s
s
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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11-21-2010, 09:27 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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The doodles get squeezed by posting them. Is there a way around this?
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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11-21-2010, 09:52 AM
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#3
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douglasw32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Horseheads, NY
Posts: 1,630
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CapperAl
The doodles get squeezed by posting them. Is there a way around this?
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Maybe use (periods) Like
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Race 2 alw 5f 3up (20x3) P/c3 #4
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1..e7
2.........e/p3
3............p3
4..............p/c3
5.e8
6............e/p3
7....e5
Or something of the sort?
I love this book, his online PP service isn't too bad either, both in price and usability.
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11-21-2010, 11:07 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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Calder after morning scratches
Race 2 alw 5f 3up (15x2) e8 #5 e7 #6
e7 e/p3 p3 p/c3
e8 e/p3
Race 4 clm 8f T 3upFM (19x1) p4 #5
e3 ......... p/c2 s
e6 e/p7 p4 p/c s
... e/p6 .. p/c2
Race 5 clm 8.3 f 3up (10x0) e/p5 #5 e/p4 #3 e/p3 #2 mush
e/p5 p/c3 s NA5
e/p4 p/c3 s
e/p3
race 8 clm 8f 3up (8x1) e8 #8
e8 e/p2 p/c s4
...e/p3 p/c3
......... p/c5
race 9 alw 8f 3up (26x2) p/c5 #5 P/c3 #10 mush?
e8 e/p3 p/c5 s
e8 e/p5 p/c3 s
... e/p3
race 10 clm 8f 3upFM (13x2) e8 #6
e0 e/p3 s
e8 e/p5 s
......... s
......... s
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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11-23-2010, 06:30 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 770
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how did you do
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11-24-2010, 08:08 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mistergee
how did you do
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It rained, so it is questionable. But, for the first time, I was able to predict the pace. Some of the early horses faded which in my mind makes pace a secondary factor.
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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11-24-2010, 08:10 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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Let's Doodle another one -- CD Wed Nov 24
Race 1 MC 8.5f 3up (6x0) e/p6 #1
....e3....e/p6....p4....p/c2....s
....e2............p2............s
................................s
Race 2 Clm 7f 3up (7x1) e7 #1
....e7....e/p4....p3....p/c3
....e3..................p/c0
Race 3 OC 8f 3upFM (17x0) mush
..........E/p6....p6....p/c4....s
..........E/p5..........P/c2
Race 4 Alw 8.5f 3up (27x3) p/c2 #9
....e7....e/p4....p/c2....s
....e6....e/p6............s
....e8....................s
Race 5 Mdn 9f (T) 3up -- NA Skip
Race 6 Clm 8.5f. 3upF&M (16x0) e/p?
......... e/p6 .... p4 .... p/c0 .... s
......... e/p6 .... p4 .............. s
......... e/p5 .... p2 .............. s
Race 7 Clm 7f 3up (16x2) mush
.... e5 .... e/p3 .... p1 .... p/c3 .... s
.... e3 .... e/p4 ............ p/c ..... s
............ e/p0 ............ p/c ..... s
............ e/p3 ............ p/c0
............ e/p5
............ e/p6
Race 8 Alw 8f (T) 3up (30x2) mush P/c or S
.... e8 .... e/p4 .... p3 .... p/c3 .... s
.... e6 .... e/p5 .... p3 .... p/c1 .... s
............ e/p5 .... p2 .... p/c3 .... s
...................... p6 .... p/c3
Race 9 Alw 6f 3upF&M (26x2) P/c or s
.... e5 .... e/p3 .... .... p/c3 .... s
.... e8 .... e/p8 .... .... p/c2 .... s
............ e/p5
Race 10 MC 5.5f 2yo -- NA Skip
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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11-27-2010, 08:45 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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Rain again. There was a lot of scratches meaning that I had to re-doodle. My impression is still that Extreme Pace calls the pace well but doesn't predict the winner. The early horses will get the lead but will they hold on to it? That's another question. In my mind, Giles pace is not a primary factor like he argues in his book. It is a secondary factor like Ainslee suggests. Two cards in the rain doesn't make enough data to certify any conclusion, but in these two test I haven't seen anything to change my opinion.
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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11-27-2010, 10:06 AM
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#9
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,889
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Quote:
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The early horses will get the lead but will they hold on to it?
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Isn't that what pace handicapping is?
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Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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11-27-2010, 11:13 AM
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#10
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Unreconstructed
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Appalachia
Posts: 6,646
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I just finished the book, but I need to study it some more. If you can do the pace matchups correctly you get a good idea of what running style will be favored by the race shape. That is good enough for me, I can take it from there.
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Deo Vindice
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11-27-2010, 06:26 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: near Lone Star Park
Posts: 5,153
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CapperAl
Rain again. There was a lot of scratches meaning that I had to re-doodle. My impression is still that Extreme Pace calls the pace well but doesn't predict the winner. The early horses will get the lead but will they hold on to it? That's another question. In my mind, Giles pace is not a primary factor like he argues in his book. It is a secondary factor like Ainslee suggests. Two cards in the rain doesn't make enough data to certify any conclusion, but in these two test I haven't seen anything to change my opinion.
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I've never looked at the Giles stuff, but generally I'd say that fast and wet tracks should not be compared. Wet tracks are often very biased, either direction -- to the front or the closers.
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Ranch West
Equine Performance Analyst, Quick Grid Software
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11-29-2010, 05:50 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ranchwest
I've never looked at the Giles stuff, but generally I'd say that fast and wet tracks should not be compared. Wet tracks are often very biased, either direction -- to the front or the closers.
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I agree. All I could see was that Extreme Pace did a good job at calling the pace. I'll need many more races from fast tracks to determine anything.
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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11-29-2010, 05:57 AM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tom
Isn't that what pace handicapping is?
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Here's the debate. If Pace is a primary factor then the race is about Pace. If Pace is a secondary factor then the race is most likely about Speed with Pace serving as maybe the tie breaker. Plus or minus 2 Speed points would be considered the same Speed, so Pace would be effective as a tie breaker within this narrow range as a secondary factor.
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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11-29-2010, 06:00 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by GaryG
I just finished the book, but I need to study it some more. If you can do the pace matchups correctly you get a good idea of what running style will be favored by the race shape. That is good enough for me, I can take it from there.
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I had to re-read the first few chapters several times to get what Giles was talking about. Once I got it, it was clear what he was saying. The author doesn't make it easy to get his point.
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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11-29-2010, 06:09 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by GaryG
I just finished the book, but I need to study it some more. If you can do the pace matchups correctly you get a good idea of what running style will be favored by the race shape. That is good enough for me, I can take it from there.
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Once you start doodling, please share them with us in this thread. Thanks.
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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