Churchill Switches To Point System For Derby Eligibility

[Pace Cap'n]

This is huge...Graded Stakes earnings no longer count for anything...

"Under the new system, Churchill staff selects which races count toward points. The plan calls for 36 races, as opposed to about 185 races worldwide that counted toward Derby selection under the previous arrangement.The campaign of races leading up to the Derby is being divided into four phases..."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/horses

[sammy the sage]

Politics...don't ya love it...

""Perhaps the biggest surprise is that the Illinois Derby, worth $500,000 this year and which produced 2002 Derby winner War Emblem, is not a points race.""

[Tom]

Bad move.

[iceknight]

Originally Posted by Tom

Bad move.

Did you read the whole article? Do you have any solid reasoning- it would be nice to see that offerred than just "that sucks" responses..

I think the move is good and I have made some comments on my blog . We would have horses that are healthy and in form coming in. Also one hit wonders with big races under the belt or multiple 6f, 7f sprint winners (Trinniberg anyone?) won't be entering and fading in a 10f race!

I do agree in part that massively reducing the no of races that are eligible (eg illinois derby etc) is not a good thing, but they might consider amendments if enough pressure is placed by the public? (change.org - anybody?)

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by iceknight

Did you read the whole article? Do you have any solid reasoning- it would be nice to see that offerred than just "that sucks" responses..

I think the move is good and I have made some comments on my blog . We would have horses that are healthy and in form coming in. Also one hit wonders with big races under the belt or multiple 6f, 7f sprint winners (Trinniberg anyone?) won't be entering and fading in a 10f race!

I do agree in part that massively reducing the no of races that are eligible (eg illinois derby etc) is not a good thing, but they might consider amendments if enough pressure is placed by the public? (change.org - anybody?)

Speaking of solid reasoning...how is this new system going to ensure the Derby horses are in form and healthy coming into the Derby? How does one relate at all to the other?

I like the idea of doing away with sprint races, but disagree with their stance on filly races.

[iceknight]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

Speaking of solid reasoning...how is this new system going to ensure the Derby horses are in form and healthy coming into the Derby? How does one relate at all to the other?

I like the idea of doing away with sprint races, but disagree with their stance on filly races.

Hey, I did nt say my reasoning was "solid" or ironclad but at least i wasnt saying "This is GREAT" and leaving it at that. I am not too thrilled with the demotion of some of the stakes races in this process... (two sentences dedacted as I had stated incorrectly that Churchill Downs would not have control on prep races. They actually claim they will have control.)

Form to me means that a horse that is competing on regular basis and earning points. Here, although some races offer a lot more points than others, I think it still reduces one race wonder horses from squeaking in on that money alone. I will have to read more in depth and recalculate this year's contenders based on the new points system to see how the field would have played out.
Filly races - i will have to read up on that detail but I thought they were "leveling" the field (for colts/geldings)?

[FenceBored]

From the FAQ at the Courier-Journal:

Why aren’t any sprints or more grass races included?

Because the Derby is not a sprint and it’s run on dirt.

-- http://www.courier-journal.com/artic...stions-Answers

[FenceBored]

Another doozy:

Who would have been left out this year?

That’s unfair to say, because trainers might have selected different paths to the Derby under the new rules. But CashCall Futurity winner Liaison, who ranked 12th in graded earnings, would have had only 15 points after finishing no better than fourth in three preps at age 3. The sprinter Trinniberg and Illinois Derby winner Done Talking would not have made the field. Instead the last three in would have been My Adonis, Gung Ho and Teeth of the Dog.

-- http://www.courier-journal.com/artic...stions-Answers

And this would have strengthened the field how?

[horses4courses]

Seems that any qualification they adopt will have some sort of flaws.
For me, though, if you can get away from the Delta Jackpot and the UAE Derby being a free pass into the KY Derby, then you're making progress.

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

Seems that any qualification they adopt will have some sort of flaws.
For me, though, if you can get away from the Delta Jackpot and the UAE Derby being a free pass into the KY Derby, then you're making progress.

UAE Derby is still a free pass. They estimate 40 points will get you in the gate and the UAE Derby is in the 100-40-20-10 points category.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by FenceBored

UAE Derby is still a free pass. They estimate 40 points will get you in the gate and the UAE Derby is in the 100-40-20-10 points category.

They like to encourage foreign entries, and I suppose that's understandable.
Gives the handicapper an easy horse to eliminate most years, too.

[DJofSD]

A knee jerk thought about the new approach: if they're going to essentially eliminate grass races in the point award system then they should also treat plastic dirt the same.

[mrhorseplayer]

I like the comment a poster made about now it would do away with those sprint horses, and how trainers now wont be able to duck one another to take an easier path , wich in return will provide for some good racing IMO

[Tom]

Did you read the whole article? Do you have any solid reasoning- it would be nice to see that offerred than just "that sucks" responses..

I read it and it still sucks.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by iceknight

Filly races - i will have to read up on that detail but I thought they were "leveling" the field (for colts/geldings)?

Yeah it just seems like a weird addition considering there has only been one filly to run in the Derby in the last 13 years and she ran second.