Is Class Stamina?

[pandy]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Be careful. I think Barry Burkin sold something with that name back in the 90s...and he might still hold the copyright to the title.

Yeah, I thought that was used before but I did a search and can't find anything. I'm not sure if titles of books are exclusive or protected, especially when the book is out of print. I know if you search on book titles, there are usually many books with the exact same title. Of course, I wouldn't use a title of a book that's still in print, but many people do.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

The best definition of class I ever heard was the ability of a horse to hold its speed over longer distances. That can mean a horse that runs fast early and finishes (Seattle Slew), or a horse that has a great sustained style (Forego).

Cheap horses can't run fast early and finish, or they need a fast past to have an effective close. To me, Secretariat's Triple Crown run fit every definition of class you could think of. Running each quarter faster than the previous quarter in the Derby. Running by the entire field around the clubhouse turn in the Preakness. Running great fractions on his own courage and finishing with a world record in the Belmont.

One of the myths is that horses with a closing style couldn't run the same finishing time if they were closer to the pace. The best horses have gears that they can use whenever they want. That is class.

[098poi]

Originally Posted by Cratos

No, class is not stamina because class is nonparametric whereas stamina is parametric.

However stamina is a function of class, but class is not a function of stamina because there are horses that have the stamina to get the race distance, but they don't have the class to win the race.

And this is "Classic" Cratos.

Not a put down, just an observation. I always have to read your posts a few times and then I tell myself, "I think I understand".

[pandy]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

The best definition of class I ever heard was the ability of a horse to hold its speed over longer distances. That can mean a horse that runs fast early and finishes (Seattle Slew), or a horse that has a great sustained style (Forego).

Cheap horses can't run fast early and finish, or they need a fast past to have an effective close. To me, Secretariat's Triple Crown run fit every definition of class you could think of. Running each quarter faster than the previous quarter in the Derby. Running by the entire field around the clubhouse turn in the Preakness. Running great fractions on his own courage and finishing with a world record in the Belmont.

One of the myths is that horses with a closing style couldn't run the same finishing time if they were closer to the pace. The best horses have gears that they can use whenever they want. That is class.

Agree.

[Dave Schwartz]

Be careful. I think Barry Burkin sold something with that name back in the 90s...and he might still hold the copyright to the title.

Believe it or not, titles are not copyrightable.

You can trademark them, though.

BTW, that Power Pace was a fine piece of work.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Believe it or not, titles are not copyrightable.

You can trademark them, though.

BTW, that Power Pace was a fine piece of work.

I bought the manual and the audiotapes for $200 about 30 years ago...and I talked to Burkin on the phone. I couldn't believe that a course called "Power Pace" used no fractional times or pace ratings at all.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I bought the manual and the audiotapes for $200 about 30 years ago...and I talked to Burkin on the phone. I couldn't believe that a course called "Power Pace" used no fractional times or pace ratings at all.

So what you are saying Thask, is that you are dead money.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

So what you are saying Thask, is that you are dead money.

I am embarrassed to admit that there was a time when I bought every promising-sounding handicapping product that came down the pike...regardless of price. And I didn't learn my lesson as quickly as I should have.

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I bought the manual and the audiotapes for $200 about 30 years ago...and I talked to Burkin on the phone. I couldn't believe that a course called "Power Pace" used no fractional times or pace ratings at all.

Dammmnnnnnnn...........thirty years ago, $200 was comparable to at least $1000 now.

The first method I bought...still remember it well--was called "The United Method of Horseplay" Was just a silly Due-Column wagering method. Think I paid about $15 for it.

Wherever that guy is that sold me that method: YOU'RE DEAD TO ME!

He probably IS DEAD already...it was 30 years ago.

[pandy]

The thing I always found amazing about the handicapping systems that were sold through the mail, they would show stats that were totally absurd, like, "the method hit 40% winners at an average mutual of 9-2 odds..." As soon as you see that you know it's a lie but people still bought it.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I am embarrassed to admit that there was a time when I bought every promising-sounding handicapping product that came down the pike...regardless of price. And I didn't learn my lesson as quickly as I should have.

I'm reminded of an anecdote from Dr. Oz. Someone writes to him saying that they have been getting lots of emails for colon cleansing. They ask if they should order one of the products. Dr. Oz responds, you could get rid of a lot more crap by just deleting the emails.

[mickey_arnold]

Originally Posted by pandy

The thing I always found amazing about the handicapping systems that were sold through the mail, they would show stats that were totally absurd, like, "the method hit 40% winners at an average mutual of 9-2 odds..." As soon as you see that you know it's a lie but people still bought it.

Sort of reminds me of the the following observation:

Q. What's the difference between professional wrestling and the sale of absurd handicapping systems?

A. The latter never stopped being a sport.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

I'm reminded of an anecdote from Dr. Oz. Someone writes to him saying that they have been getting lots of emails for colon cleansing. They ask if they should order one of the products. Dr. Oz responds, you could get rid of a lot more crap by just deleting the emails.

I hope you don't take this personally, since you once wrote for the publication...but my favorite books back then were those wonderful anthologies of "tested, winning systems"...which were compiled by Henry Bomze, the esteemed editor of American Turf Monthly. 50 thoroughly-tested winning systems all gathered in one nicely-bound book? Who could resist?

How I wished that at least one of those systems was worth the paper that it was printed on.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I hope you don't take this personally, since you once wrote for the publication...but my favorite books back then were those wonderful anthologies of "tested, winning systems"...which were compiled by Henry Bomze, the esteemed editor of American Turf Monthly. 50 thoroughly-tested winning systems all gathered in one nicely-bound book? Who could resist?

How I wished that at least one of those systems was worth the paper that it was printed on.

I started writing for ATM for two reasons. One, I thought Ray Taulbot was a genius. As it turns out a long passed away genius, but I'll always give him credit for being my first serious handicapping influence. Two, doing the type of articles they specialized in was a piece of cake. I did my share of "How to....," and "10 Rules....," articles. If you remember, one of the common articles was on some angle with a PP for a horse that fit perfectly. When I was writing for them Richard Bomze was my first editor, but then turned over editing to Ian Blair. He was a great guy, but he made it clear that stepping too far outside the lines wasn't going to work. So I eventually moved to Horseplayer Magazine where they gave me a lot of leeway. In any case, ATM was like that old comfy chair - you knew what you were getting and you got it every month. Given the dearth of good handicapping books in the late 60's/early 70's, other than Ainslie's seminal book, ATM's books (A Treasury of the American Turf and others) were like water to a thirsty handicapper. Actually, in the 70's when I was making $5 win bets on horses I loved, I used the $57 Betting Method, which came out of the book, and a couple of the system plays, like bet the 2-year old with the fastest half method.

If you were reading ATM in June 1993 I did an article on how to bet "Triples" and Superfectas, as well as one on betting Pick 4's and Pick 6's. I don't know if it helped, but at the time it was fresh stuff because the bets were fairly new. Don't think I ever got into an ATM anthology though. I figure you learn something even from crap, even if it is only to ignore crap!

[Robert Fischer]

class is ability and the robustness against limiting factors


quote: racing book

Today, American Racing uses the 'Claiming System' rather than the 'Handicap System', but we refer to the process of estimating a horse's chances at a specific wager-outcome, as 'Handicapping', just the same.

In the Claiming System, it is necessary to understand the Class of an animal. There are many theories about class, some of which get quite fancy. The class is determined by the Level at which a horse can contend.

The level at which a horse can contend is determined by ability. Key factors such as tactical speed can be 'Limiting Factors' as a horse attempts to climb the class ladder. Such horses contend against cheaper competition, but are also-rans in competitive fields.

Trainer Intent is important as well. High percentage trainers tend to run horses at, or below, their class level.

'Class', in the Claiming System, is as important as 'Weight', in the Handicap System.