How Dumb Is Mountaineer

[Buddha]

I am just reading a couple of articles that were posted in the local paper about the ongoing dispute with HPBA and MNR managment. The way I see it, management is trying to get bare minimum everything.

I have a couple of questions that I wondered about. Most have something to do with the ongoing dispute here at MNR.

At most tracks, who sets the purse structure and has access to change it? Would it be the HBPA or the track?

How far do most tracks pay to? I thought it was to about 6th place.

Why would the HBPA want more cheaper races? Why not just have the horsemen try to get some better horses? I mean we are talking a difference of $4000-$7500 or so. I don't think it should be that tough, and if you don't have the access to $7500 or $10,000 animals, then why shouldnt you have to wait to find a race for your horse.

How many assistant starters are at most tracks? Horsemen here want 12, I think they have about 8 now and management is offering 10. I think it would all in all be safer to have 12, even if you have to pay them mroe each week.

If you want to read the whole article, it is at http://www.reviewonline.com/news/sto...ions010604.asp for now. Don't know how long it will be there, but I will archive it to my page later today. Also there is another article if you want to read http://www.reviewonline.com/news/sto...nned010604.asp

[JustMissed]

Hey Buddha,

What is the current stall fee and how many stalls do you guys have?

JustMissed

[Buddha]

Originally posted by JustMissed
Hey Buddha,

What is the current stall fee and how many stalls do you guys have?

JustMissed

I thought I was told there was no stall fees for the horsemen, and then MNR told them they werent allowed access to the track for training, and then said htey could pay a $8 a day stall fee and keep it. I would guess there are about 20 or so barns. Not sure how many stalls.

I guess it would be a good time to have your own farm and train off the farm

[sjk]

I guess the starting gate does hold 12 but I only show 24 races in the last 5 years with more than 10 starters.

Most tracks we have run at pay to 4th or 5th.

I think the condition book should reflect the horse population on the grounds, not what it could be. It is a very frustrating and expensive situation when a horse is ready and you can't get him in a race.

[trying2win]

Buddha,

Do they have a thoroughbred B-circuit for cheap horses in West Virginia? If not, perhaps that's what they need there, so owners can race their horses once every 3 or 4 weeks, instead of every
5 or 6 weeks. They have B-circuits here in some provinces in Canada. For those Canadian owners on the A-circuit who can't get enough races or their cheaper stock can't compete, they have the option of shipping them to the B-circuit tracks.

Must be difficult to pay the bills for your horse, if they only race once every 6 weeks. I think I read somewhere that it costs approximately $1000 to $1200 a month just to own a thoroughbred. If I'm wrong in that estimate, please correct me.

Thanks,

Trying2win

[Buddha]

Originally posted by sjk
I guess the starting gate does hold 12 but I only show 24 races in the last 5 years with more than 10 starters.

Most tracks we have run at pay to 4th or 5th.

I think the condition book should reflect the horse population on the grounds, not what it could be. It is a very frustrating and expensive situation when a horse is ready and you can't get him in a race.

The starting gate holds 12, but only stakes races have 12. The norm is 10, but even then, they usually only have 1 starter per 2 horses. Most tracks have 1 starter per horse, with a couple behind the gate. As for paying to tenth, I think that is a bit ridiculous. Likie you stated, I thought most tracks didnt go past 6th.

Originally posted by trying2win
Buddha,

Do they have a thoroughbred B-circuit for cheap horses in West Virginia? If not, perhaps that's what they need there, so owners can race their horses once every 3 or 4 weeks, instead of every
5 or 6 weeks. They have B-circuits here in some provinces in Canada. For those Canadian owners on the A-circuit who can't get enough races or their cheaper stock can't compete, they have the option of shipping them to the B-circuit tracks.

Must be difficult to pay the bills for your horse, if they only race once every 6 weeks. I think I read somewhere that it costs approximately $1000 to $1200 a month just to own a thoroughbred. If I'm wrong in that estimate, please correct me.

Thanks,

Trying2win

THere is no B circuit, but within a reasonable 3 hour drive, there is Thistledown and Beulah in ohio, but the purses are at most half of MNRs, if not less. You are about right. People around here say it is about $1000 a month.

[Buddha]

And as for there not being enough races, the hold about 2 or 3 if not more MDN4000 races, and I feel more than a fair share of 4000 lifetime and calendar condition (i.e. nw1 6m, nw2 y) races, but i guess even the number they run isnt enough for hte horsemen.

[Zaf]

Why don't they run 12 horse fields ? Safety factor ?

ZAFONIC

[Buddha]

Originally posted by zafonic
Why don't they run 12 horse fields ? Safety factor ?

ZAFONIC

I was told by one of the jock agents that the track really isnt wide enough to accomodate it, especially around the turns in like mile races or races close to the turns. plus, they prolly dont have enough gate people. would make for some crazy betting and great paying exotics though.

[TonyK@HSH]

Originally posted by Buddha
Why would the HBPA want more cheaper races? Why not just have the horsemen try to get some better horses? I mean we are talking a difference of $4000-$7500 or so. I don't think it should be that tough, and if you don't have the access to $7500 or $10,000 animals, then why shouldnt you have to wait to find a race for your horse.

Buddha,

I may be able to shed some light on this one as this attitude is also prevalent at C.T.
Right now the horseman at MNR and C.T. are running some very inexpensive horses for some huge pots. Horses capable of winning these bottom level maiden/claiming races can be bought pretty cheap as castoffs in Md, Jersey, Pa, etc. MNR owners and trainers can acquire horses for less than $5000 that are a cinch to win $10000-$15000 purses. Not a bad financial transaction.
Also, if you own a solid $4000-$5000 claimer, they can easily bankroll $25000+. This is another strong return on investment.
The purse structure and distribution is based on horse wagers and slots. Typically, the distribution of purses is based on an average amount per day. This daily distribution would stay level even if more 'expensive' races were written. The result would be a reduced purse structure per claiming level.
The horsemen at some of the small 'slot-aided' tracks have quite a coup. The have managed to keep the same lower classed horses that used to compete for $1500 pots and now have them run for $10000+ pots. Better horses simply mean that horsemen would pay more for horses that would compete for the same purses than cheaper ones do today.

Tony

[Buddha]

Originally posted by TonyK@HSH
Buddha,


The purse structure and distribution is based on horse wagers and slots. Typically, the distribution of purses is based on an average amount per day. This daily distribution would stay level even if more 'expensive' races were written. The result would be a reduced purse structure per claiming level.
Tony

This part doesnt seem to be at Mountaineer. They have their prices for each level and no matter what is being run that day for instance, it could be 10 $4000 races and the MDN 4000 will still be running for a pot of 10,300. Now if you have a day with 3 allowances, 2 10,000 claimers, 4 $4000 eligibility claimers, and a maiden 4000, it still has a $10,300 purse. at mountaineer it doesnt appear to matter what else is running that day, all the classes have their purses.

I agree with the rest of your post about having cheap horses running for more. I just don't understand why they don't try to get better horses instead of staying cheap. in my opinion, i would want to maybe win with a 4000 claimer, pocket say 20,000 in purses if the horse doesnt get claimed, take that 20000 and get a 10000 horse, race for more money, and get better horses that way, but these cheap owners don't seem to want to do that.

[Zaf]

It would seem logical that the stock would improve. This has happened at many tracks after they acquired the Slots.

ZAFONIC

[Zaf]

Miss the night action at the Mountain the last couple of nights.

ZAFONIC

[JustMissed]

Great thread guys!

Once you can figure out the relationship between the trainer and the condition book-you're miles ahead of the other players.

JustMissed

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by zafonic
Miss the night action at the Mountain the last couple of nights.

ZAFONIC

they picked some pretty good nights to take off......it's cold as hell down there this week. I am two or so hours from the Mountain and it's about 10 Fahrenheit here. I watched the Dishnetwork guy working outside my house tonight installing a Dish....man...what a job he has. I took good care of him with hot chocolate and a dinner invite, but he was here until 9p and only got two of four rooms wired. when he went to put a couple connectors on outside the house the cable snapped. That's pretty cold. He will be back tomorrow.