WHO'S THE GREATEST TRAINER OF ALL TIME??

[NorCalGreg]

....Have no idea. It's not Randi Persaud though. He's actually interesting in an odd way--winning 8 of 98 allow races, for a flat bet profit. Just look at GUYANA CAT in the 7th @ Belmont today--all the distance changes, surface switches, mind-boggling class drops and raises. This is CAT's 5th race in about 6 weeks. Only reason I noticed--he's 20-1 ML.

His odds have been cut in half last two times out, but notice the improvement--this is the sharpest this horse has ever been. It's obvious Randi took the horse to Parx, and didn't realize those races there are full of ringers, also. Soooo....Randi brings Cat BACK to NY, in what appears to be a jump UP in class--back in 7 days, trying to get his money back he apparently missed in PA.

That's what it looks like anyway. This is another trainer that has taken the science of fake-buffoonery to breathtaking new heights. Tip of the cap to Mr Persaud--I follow this guy, and don't know what the heck he's gonna do most of the time--NCG

[Racetrack Playa]

He won the Queens County(ADUCK),@ big odd,s a few years ago with MORE THAN A REASON (his best horse ever, and one of my personal favorites),
Randi with an I,
that's all I know

[ebcorde]

That guy is either cold as Ice or Hot. at one time he was so bad . an automatic throw out, then a few years ago he started winning.

For me the Best Trainer for my money was Bobby Frankel, I started the game around 2000. I did great with him. The old timers in Md swear by King Leatherbury.

[raybo]

Originally Posted by NorCalGreg

....Have no idea. It's not Randi Persaud though. He's actually interesting in an odd way--winning 8 of 98 allow races, for a flat bet profit. Just look at GUYANA CAT in the 7th @ Belmont today--all the distance changes, surface switches, mind-boggling class drops and raises. This is CAT's 5th race in about 6 weeks. Only reason I noticed--he's 20-1 ML.

His odds have been cut in half last two times out, but notice the improvement--this is the sharpest this horse has ever been. It's obvious Randi took the horse to Parx, and didn't realize those races there are full of ringers, also. Soooo....Randi brings Cat BACK to NY, in what appears to be a jump UP in class--back in 7 days, trying to get his money back he apparently missed in PA.

That's what it looks like anyway. This is another trainer that has taken the science of fake-buffoonery to breathtaking new heights. Tip of the cap to Mr Persaud--I follow this guy, and don't know what the heck he's gonna do most of the time--NCG

His last race speed rating was/is his lifetime top. Does that fact not diminish your enthusiasm for the very near future a bit?

[ronsmac]

If it's dirt racing only I'd say Bob Baffert.

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by raybo

His last race speed rating was/is his lifetime top. Does that fact not diminish your enthusiasm for the very near future a bit?

Yeah, Cat's topping out...but show me a 20-1 shot that looks good on paper, ya know? His last (and only) win can't be found--he hasn't even made the Steward's photo. At 20-1 he has enough positives for me, though. He could actually win this thing in my opinion, Ray.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I like the play if you can get that kind of price. In other words, you might want to think twice.

Horse doesn't exactly have the look of a fierce competitor but by the numbers its hard to find many in here that rate any or much better on dirt. And I'm not inclined to think that there's a whole lot of horses in here that just love turf. They just prefer it against other NYBreds. Cat is in decent form and if he doesn't regress tremendously switching to turf and going a bit farther, it doesn't seem like his chances here are much worse than many of the others that just run the same sort of race over and over again.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by raybo

His last race speed rating was/is his lifetime top. Does that fact not diminish your enthusiasm for the very near future a bit?

Meant to incorporate this point into my reply since it was actually one of the things that I liked about him.

When I held and used a trainer's license I was one of the few that was not under the impression that I had it all figured out and had unlocked all the mysteries of training racehorses. In fact, I loved to peck at the minds of others, especially the old-timers that couldn't buy a win in today's game but still managed to bang out a few wins that you didn't see coming. Most of the time you got fantasy, but once in a while you'd get shown the light.

A friend had departed Phoenix for bigger and better things and left with mostly horses that he owned himself and a few for clients. He picked up a few more clients and was doing well, but didn't have the clout to get enough stalls to keep everything so he sent one of his favorite cheapie mares back to me. Thankfully I did okay with her banging out checks since I knew I'd never actually get paid, but she was one of those 3 for 50 types that hadn't won in over a year and yet was in the hunt 90% of the time. If she had been a gelding she'd have earned the label "cheater" long prior in all likelihood.

I was on the phone kind of bitching about it - "...just can't seem to get her to belly down and get to the bottom...", "...just going through the motions out there and in a hurry to get back to her stall without detouring through the circle and test barn..." that sort of stuff. After apprising him of what she'd been doing, he gave me the patented cackle and:

(paraphrase)

"Shit, kid, you tell me that after getting up at 4 and getting to the track at 4:30 and getting done around the same time and going to the races at the same time and going back to feed at the same time and finally going home at the same time for seven straight months at Phoenix - tell me you don't start going through the motions until you pack up at the end of the meet and start changing the routine out of necessity when you head somewhere else."

"You lead her up at the seven-eighths gap? Take her around by Bart's and lead her up at the half gap or the three-quarters. Or put on a set of blinkers she's never had on. Or take her up and stand her in the gate every day for three days before she runs. Load her in the trailer and drive around the block for thirty minutes and unload her and put her back in the stall. Just do something totally out of her routine and see if she doesn't wake up."

I felt stupid that I needed to be told something so obviously logical, but it was something that stuck with me. It didn't get her a win in her next start if I'm honest, but it did come in handy over the years and was an approach that paid some dividend more than once.

So when I see a horse like this that seems to be all over the place as Greg mentioned, perhaps to my own detriment I get reminded of that. It wasn't an amazing effort and he still didn't win, but it seems like when he shipped out of town he did kind of wake up. Maybe it is the surface or the medication rules or who knows what. But you do look back and see that when he left AQU to go to BEL, that first start he ran pretty damn good. Yeah it was an off track but he had never been anywhere in 4 previous off-track starts and then runs a pretty good race in his fifth.

Maybe this guy is kinda the same. He's changed things up again, shipped out, shipped back, stretching out again, back over to turf... I know I'm trying to backfit a case (or something like that) for the horse because I want to like him at the price, but I do think once in a while you get shit ass lucky when you unknowingly look at it right.

Sorry for the novel, wasn't my intention.

[Racetrack Playa]

The Harbor King( in said above Race 7)
A horse I play in the tri often, obscure trainer,
usually an off the pace type, switched it up in last, interesting today.

Whos The Best ? Who knows? TOO many Known Unknowns,

[ebcorde]

he's got a good chance, the pace will be key. I don't like the race.

looking at the total body of workouts will be interesting to see which trainers
got it right. Lots of 4f works. I like to see a few 5f works mixed in when rnning long routes.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Pretty ugly field.

Distance is key to me in this one, as there are few horses that have ran 9F before, and the ones who have, haven't done it very well.

Prophet's Cat is the price horse that intrigues me in this one. Has been running at this level for a while, and it almost seems crazy that they haven't stretched him out past a mile in quite some time. Bug jockey is a concern as he switches from Franco, but I'll also look at the positive of 7 fewer pounds to carry.

Hirschbein is interesting, but the change in trainer is extremely tough to overlook.

[Pensacola Pete]

My vote would go to "Sunny" Jim Fitzsimmons.

Second would go to Charlie Whittingham.

[johnhannibalsmith]

That was a lot of typing for a horse that vanished from the tote while I was out having a smoke.

[Ocala Mike]

I would go with Allen Jerkens, Hirsch Jacobs, or Sunny Jim Fitzsimmons.

[reckless]

My picks are Woody Stephens, Allen Jerkens and Bill Mott.