POPS&TIPS

[keenang]

Lefty:

Have you ever seen so much bitching over nothing? When you have something to say about a program I would love to hear about it via a pm if you have the time. To be honest this board is getting a little out of hand,so I think I will say adious.

Geno

[betovernetcapper]

Oh my God! I've probably lost all chance of getting on the mentoring list.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Lefty

Sorry guys but I started the thread and I'M NOT SELLING ANYTHING. I didn't know unless the person selling the prgm took out an ad that no one was supposed to post. I got it now.

No, you don't have it now. NOBODY (including me) had any problem with your posts. I'm not even sure why it is necessary for me to write this reply, after all the years you've been here....

[PaceAdvantage]

Bottom line, is that VENDORS are not allowed to promote their products on this board without prior authorization. NON-VENDORS (like Lefty) can post till their fingers fall off, about any product, book, software, or anything they'd like.

It's always been this way. Why this needs explaining now, I'll never know...

If anyone has a better system, I'm all ears.

[Lefty]

PA, it needed saying because I started the thread, not RPM nor Len. Len responded and a few were hollering about taking out ad space, and you yourself said you weren't cool with it. I certainly could understand this position if thread was started by RPM, Len or a suspicious poster. Those guys(the negative guys) made me angry and i was surprised by your position on the matter. Hope we're all clear now. I feel better.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Lefty

Sorry guys but I started the thread and I'M NOT SELLING ANYTHING. I didn't know unless the person selling the prgm took out an ad that no one was supposed to post. I got it now. It won't happen again.
hcap, you suggest a few dozen plays? Hey Wolsen posted plays, I bght his prgm and could never duplicate his success. So plays for a software prgm mean nothing. Everybody will use it differently.

But ART BAKER said

I had the silly notion that I might do the same here for those interested in trying out this unique approach to handicapping, be kind of a mentor on TIPS.

Yes there is no guarantee that he will show a positive ROI, but showing the P&Ts' methodology in actual use would be very helpful.

Look. I admit I am skeptical, but I would be impressed with some reasonable showing. Doesn't have to be a gigantic ROI, even break even, beating the track take-would show some potential. I mentioned earlier in this thread I programmed Pops & Tips myself years ago. I was intrigued by an alternative approach-no pace lines, etc.. Never really did a thorough test. This was years ago before I new much about testing.

Although you did not show a positive with Wolsons' system, HE did. Perhaps he knew his program better and knew about finding a "niche" of subset of races that were more successful than playing all. Art Baker may be able to shed some light on how to play in ways that you are not aware of. In fact, I believe that is what he pretty much was saying. Real time play is always more illustrative than analyzing past plays, although that also has value.

I only wish I saved the original manual entry Lotus123 sheet I used for my Pops & Tips worksheet. Today I would use the TSN procaps data files. And make it database compatible. So don't get me wrong. I do believe there are some gems in the P&Ts' methodology. In fact the Owner/Trainer Tip picked a $133 horse at CT last week.

TR/OWN: FOSTER THOMAS/THOMAS FOSTER
STS: 11
WIN% .18
ROI 1.11

[John]

Listen up guys,You can talk Pops and Tips until the cows come home.Tips are nothing more than Trainers intentions and Horses ability.It is accumulated from the DRF past performances. So ask yourself, "Are there any two of us that handicap and use the same information the same way. Of course not. "What fools are we who can not see the forest for the trees."

I believe Len to be honest and sincere, His job is to try and get as much feedback as possible so he can sift through it and decide what will be of good use in his upcoming upgrade. I am sure that Len will composite PA one way or an other.

I have used Pops and Tips for years. A gentleman, named John Howard
[ Multibags on the board.] is the Guru of Pops and Tips as far as I am concerned.John,has been playing P&T for better than 17 years.He comes to the track only on Saturday with his Son.He has a business to run but,plays on-line during the week. Sometime we would compare are TIPS horses and you know what. He would have more tips on some and less on others than I had on my Tips sheet.So you see, TIPs are in the eyes of the beholder, just like the Past Performances are.One thing John taught me is this. Price is more important than the amount of tips.If you have a high of 10 tips on a 3/5 don't bet the race.If you have a horse that is just 1 tip better than the others that is 10-1 or better bet with both hands.Just one good payoff will put me ahead for the day.

I hope John, reads this and adds his expertise to this link.

[lefthandlow]

Len or any tips user

I play a lot of maiden races and look at 1st time starters a lot..Does the

tips program show anything on a 1ster's workouts to show he is ready or

wound up tight.I think that is the pharse.

guess I'm asking is does it show any tips for them or anyway to evaluate

horse or trainer with a first time starter ???

LL

[LEN C]

For all you folks intensely concerned with my participation in the capitalistic process, I have just given the OK to the PA ad people to bill me for an ad by December 31 to make the tax deadline. So PA now has a new sponsor.

May we now proceed to talking about TIPS and making it the best product we can?

[LEN C]

Originally Posted by lefthandlow

Len or any tips user
I play a lot of maiden races and look at 1st time starters a lot..Does the
tips program show anything on a 1ster's workouts to show he is ready or
wound up tight.I think that is the pharse.
guess I'm asking is does it show any tips for them or anyway to evaluate
horse or trainer with a first time starter ???
LL

I've personally forwarded this to Jon and Art. Thanks for the type of inquiry I'd like to see more of.

[Pace Cap'n]

John's post got me curious so I did a brief search and came across this thread from '01, which includes contributions by Jon Worth himself...

www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277&page=1&pp=15

[John]

Yeah Pace, I started that link and was so enthused about Pops and Tips That I spoke with JON Worth on the telephone and he suggested I purchase some stuff that might have helped me back then.It really did not.
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Len C.Congratulations on being a sponsor on this board.I am sure it will help Mike,{PA] with the cost of running a website as long as members and non-members will click on the ad and read it.As I understand it PA only gets revenue from people reading the ad.
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Lefthandlow, In Tom Worth's postscript 1988,He gives several examples with Maiden races. Tom insisted on a WUT and at least 5 TIPS which is hard to come by with FTS.I pass any races that have more than 3 FTS. There are so many other races to look at.A maiden race with each horse running several times is a good race for Tips.

I see you live in the same state as I do. maybe we go to the same track.PM me and let me know.

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Len or Jon, I would like to understand the "IR" tip [ gains ,loses, gains.] IR tip seems to be more of a 'trip Handicapping' than a tip of stable intentions.

Please explain if you can.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE.

[Lefty]

Al Baker or other Tips usweers:
I just got the Tips Manual and it refers to at least 5 tips. But they didn't have as many tips back then. Now that we have 107(i think)is the number 5 still viable or should the number of Tips be increased? If so, to what number?

And there's mention of a TCF figure which is a class fig computed from the money box. In these days of inflated purses is that figure still a good indication?

Len, If the TCF figure is still worthwhile to use, could you, in a future update ,put that fig in for every horse?

[Light]

107 tips!. I'm still thinking this thing still had around forty or so tips.I can see why you need a computer to calculate that many tips. I have a few tips I created myself. One in particular branches out to be a system on its own. It usually requires at least one other tip to be present for it to work effectively. Obviously this is a powerful tip. I cant see 107 tips being as effective as a few strong ones.But you probably get more action that way.

[LEN C]

Originally Posted by lefthandlow

Len or any tips user
I play a lot of maiden races and look at 1st time starters a lot..Does the
tips program show anything on a 1ster's workouts to show he is ready or
wound up tight.I think that is the pharse.
guess I'm asking is does it show any tips for them or anyway to evaluate
horse or trainer with a first time starter ???
LL

Sorry about the delay. Holidays and all that. This is directly from Jon Worth:

If you handicap a lot of maiden races one of the things to look for is the
profit line figure that is available free from brisbet. (NOw Twin spires. It
is under the "tools section in the betting/wagering menu) If a first time
starter has one of the top five profit line figures then it increases said
horse's chances. It doesn't mean a horse won't win or finish in-the-money
if it doesn't have one of the top five profit line figures, but it does
incresase their chances for doing so. Also even horses iwth top five profit
lines can still pay longshot, ($10, $20, $30 and up) so it doesn't usually
hurt the prices either.

Also of course, look for the WUTT, good
trainer/rider, if the horse is a Super Cluster, that can be a big plus too.
Speed of works can be useful too, so rating works for speed is helpful.
Also, look for a vulnerable favoirte.

Also, FYI, we, (Tom Worth), devoted
nearly an entire TIPS Report issue, July/August 2006 to handicapping first
time starters.