Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Fallacy of Special Pleading!

No it isn't because the faith I have was gifted to me, otherwise I'd still be dead in my sins as are all unbelievers.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

No it isn't because the faith I have was gifted to me, otherwise I'd still be dead in my sins as are all unbelievers.

Also Special Pleading.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

That's because Buddhists don't believe man needs saving.

Exactly!

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

None of it because man doesn't think like God.

Special Pleading!

[Actor]

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins – The God Delusion

infanticidal

Infants dashed to pieces
Isaiah 13:11 – 18 I will punish the world for its evil…Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished...Their bows will slaughter the young men; they will have no mercy on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not pity children. RSV

Kill man, woman, child and infant
1 Samuel 15:2 – 3 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel…Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. KJV

Infants put to the sword
1 Samuel 22:19 And Nob, the city of the priests, smote he with the edge of the sword, both men and women, children and sucklings, and oxen, and asses, and sheep, with the edge of the sword. KJV

Infants faint in the street
Lamentations 2:1 – 11 How hath the Lord covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger…Mine eyes do fail with tears, my bowels are troubled, my liver is poured upon the earth, for the destruction of the daughter of my people; because the children and the sucklings swoon in the streets of the city. KJV

Starve the infants and children
Lamentations 4:4 The tongue of the sucking child cleaveth to the roof of his mouth for thirst: the young children ask bread, and no man breaketh it unto them. KJV

Infants dashed to pieces
Nahum 3:10 Yet was she carried away, she went into captivity: her young children also were dashed in pieces at the top of all the streets: and they cast lots for her honourable men, and all her great men were bound in chains. KJV

Little children dashed in pieces
Hosea 13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. KJV

Kill all the little boys (but not the virgin girls)
Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. KJV

Destroy children and parents together
Jeremiah 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. KJV

Kill your whole family: children, wife, brother
Deuteronomy 13:6 – 11 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods…But thou shalt surely kill him…And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you. KJV

You will eat your children
Deuteronomy 28:53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the Lord thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee: KJV

”Parents shall eat their children”
Ezekiel 5:8 -10 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, am against thee, and will execute judgments in the midst of thee in the sight of the nations. And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all thine abominations. Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers; and I will execute judgments in thee, and the whole remnant of thee will I scatter into all the winds. KJV

Eat the flesh of sons and daughters
Jeremiah 19:3 – 9 And say, Hear ye the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle…And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend in the siege. KJV

Literally destroy children
Deuteronomy 3:3 – 6 So the Lord our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining…utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. KJV

At God's command, Moses killed all the children
Deuteronomy 2:31 – 34 And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land…And the Lord our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. KJV

Children attacked by bears for teasing God's prophet
2 Kings 2:23 – 24 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. KJV

God kills all firstborn children
Exodus 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. KJV

Your children will become orphans
Exodus 22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless. KJV

"I will slay the fruit of you their womb”
Hosea 9:11 – 16 As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception. Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them! Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. KJV

Kill all the little children
Ezekiel 9:4 – 6 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark. KJV

"Wild beasts shall rob you of your children”
Leviticus 26:21 – 22 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate. KJV

Bathsheba's innocent child killed
2 Samuel 12:13 – 18 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. And Nathan departed unto his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick. David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth. And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them. [/]And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died.[/B] KJV

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

None of it because man doesn't think like God.

In my previous response I gave you the benefit of assuming that your use of the double negative was unintentional, otherwise you have two posts which contradict each other. (Think about it.)

Whatever, your post was non-responsive. I'll make it easy for you. Give us an example of just one passage in the Bible which could not have been "invented" by a mere mortal.

The claim itself is ridiculous. Take "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Sounds like something Dickens wrote.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

In my previous response I gave you the benefit of assuming that your use of the double negative was unintentional, otherwise you have two posts which contradict each other. (Think about it.)

Whatever, your post was non-responsive. I'll make it easy for you. Give us an example of just one passage in the Bible which could not have been "invented" by a mere mortal.

The claim itself is ridiculous. Take "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Sounds like something Dickens wrote.

The bible isn't a collection of unrelated, unassociated passages. The bible is the cohesive, organic story of the historical creation of the universe, the fall of mankind, God's redemptive plan to save sinners throughout history and His Son Jesus Christ's historic fulfillment of that plan of salvation.

But I'm not surprised you would ask such a foolish question because this is how you see the bible -- as a bunch of unrelated, unconnected, disjointed stories, which is precisely why you cannot understand those stories because you ignore context.

As far as Dickens goes -- you sound like a losing horse player -- "coulda, woulda, shoulda".

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins – The God Delusion

infanticidal

Infants dashed to pieces
Isaiah 13:11 – 18 I will punish the world for its evil…Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished...Their bows will slaughter the young men; they will have no mercy on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not pity children. RSV

Kill man, woman, child and infant
1 Samuel 15:2 – 3 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel…Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. KJV

Infants put to the sword
1 Samuel 22:19 And Nob, the city of the priests, smote he with the edge of the sword, both men and women, children and sucklings, and oxen, and asses, and sheep, with the edge of the sword. KJV

Infants faint in the street
Lamentations 2:1 – 11 How hath the Lord covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger…Mine eyes do fail with tears, my bowels are troubled, my liver is poured upon the earth, for the destruction of the daughter of my people; because the children and the sucklings swoon in the streets of the city. KJV

Starve the infants and children
Lamentations 4:4 The tongue of the sucking child cleaveth to the roof of his mouth for thirst: the young children ask bread, and no man breaketh it unto them. KJV

Infants dashed to pieces
Nahum 3:10 Yet was she carried away, she went into captivity: her young children also were dashed in pieces at the top of all the streets: and they cast lots for her honourable men, and all her great men were bound in chains. KJV

Little children dashed in pieces
Hosea 13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. KJV

Kill all the little boys (but not the virgin girls)
Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. KJV

Destroy children and parents together
Jeremiah 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. KJV

Kill your whole family: children, wife, brother
Deuteronomy 13:6 – 11 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods…But thou shalt surely kill him…And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you. KJV

You will eat your children
Deuteronomy 28:53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the Lord thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee: KJV

”Parents shall eat their children”
Ezekiel 5:8 -10 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, am against thee, and will execute judgments in the midst of thee in the sight of the nations. And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all thine abominations. Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers; and I will execute judgments in thee, and the whole remnant of thee will I scatter into all the winds. KJV

Eat the flesh of sons and daughters
Jeremiah 19:3 – 9 And say, Hear ye the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle…And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend in the siege. KJV

Literally destroy children
Deuteronomy 3:3 – 6 So the Lord our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining…utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. KJV

At God's command, Moses killed all the children
Deuteronomy 2:31 – 34 And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land…And the Lord our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. KJV

Children attacked by bears for teasing God's prophet
2 Kings 2:23 – 24 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. KJV

God kills all firstborn children
Exodus 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. KJV

Your children will become orphans
Exodus 22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless. KJV

"I will slay the fruit of you their womb”
Hosea 9:11 – 16 As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception. Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them! Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. KJV

Kill all the little children
Ezekiel 9:4 – 6 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark. KJV

"Wild beasts shall rob you of your children”
Leviticus 26:21 – 22 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate. KJV

Bathsheba's innocent child killed
2 Samuel 12:13 – 18 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. And Nathan departed unto his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick. David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth. And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them. [/]And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died.[/B] KJV

The curse of sin is death. It appears God made good on his solemn warning to Adam and his progeny.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

It appears God made good on his solemn warning to Adam and his progeny.

Right! Which supports my thesis that God is not good.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Right! Which supports my thesis that God is not good.

God isn't good because you are adverse to him being a just God. God would have been unfair or unjust if he had not given Adam a heads up beforehand on what would happen if he disobeyed.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The bible isn't a collection of unrelated, unassociated passages.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by boxcar

The bible is the cohesive, organic story of the historical creation of the universe, ...

Which it got wrong.

Originally Posted by boxcar

... the fall of mankind, ...

Which never happened. It's fiction.

Originally Posted by boxcar

... God's redemptive plan to save sinners throughout history and His Son Jesus Christ's ...

A fictitious character in an implausible tale.

Originally Posted by boxcar

... historic fulfillment ...

Not!

Originally Posted by boxcar

But I'm not surprised you would ask such a foolish question ...

You made the claim. The burden of proof is on you.

Originally Posted by boxcar

.. because this is how you see the bible -- as a bunch of unrelated, unconnected, disjointed stories, ...

No, they are related and connected. So what?

Originally Posted by boxcar

... which is precisely why you cannot understand those stories because you ignore context.

I'll address that in my summation, hopefully in a week or two.

Originally Posted by boxcar

As far as Dickens goes -- you sound like a losing horse player -- "coulda, woulda, shoulda".

Read A Tale of Two Cities.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

God isn't good because you are adverse to him being a just God.

God is not just! Go back and read my post titled "unjust". There are 50 specifications on that charge alone.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

God is not just! Go back and read my post titled "unjust". There are 50 specifications on that charge alone.

All taken out of context. Just because you personally don't like the penalty prescribed by God doesn't make him unjust. It just makes you self-righteous.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

All taken out of context.

No "context" excuses such monstrous unjust actions.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Just because you personally don't like the penalty prescribed by God doesn't make him unjust.

Right. My opinions have nothing to do with it. God's actions are what make him unjust.

Originally Posted by boxcar

It just makes you self-righteous.

Ad Hominem!

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

It just makes you self-righteous.

Also pot calling the kettle black.