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Old 01-08-2024, 09:53 PM   #31
thespaah
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I think everyone will see why Laurel is not the answer when temporarily run there. There simply is not enough land to expand and host 100k people, and the infield has a large pit in it.
I looked at google street view. Rogers Ave which runs behind the main plant where the entrances are, has changed dramatically. There used to be dilapidated row houses on that street. For the entire length of Rogers Ave as it passes the Pimlico property, those buildings are now gone. Empty grass covered fields are what are there now. My guess is a neighborhood revitalization?
The main issue with the area surrounding Old Hilltop is the neighborhood is impoverished and known for criminal activity.
In order for a renovation of Pimlico to work, the surrounding neighborhood has to be revitalized. People are not going to go to a place and be at high risk.
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Old 01-08-2024, 11:59 PM   #32
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The main issue with the area surrounding Old Hilltop is the neighborhood is impoverished and known for criminal activity.
In order for a renovation of Pimlico to work, the surrounding neighborhood has to be revitalized. People are not going to go to a place and be at high risk.
idk? this stuff was no impediment for harrah's chester!
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Old 01-09-2024, 06:55 PM   #33
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Ahhh. Ok. I was not privy to those details. That makes sense.
One thing though. Why would MD horsemen simply not relocate horses they intended on racing at CNL, to be stabled at CNL? Why go through the hassle of trying to ship 160 miles though miserable DC traffic...In weather that is very likely to be hot and humid?
After all, the condition books are issued well in advance. The trainers have a pretty good grasp on what the Secretary is going to write on a given day.
Speaking strictly for myself, I had a husband and wife that were grooms and they had a daughter in 2nd-3rd grade. School would start before the meet was over. So they just leave? One groom was handicapped. It was a struggle to walk, but he did it. He was a local hero for the heart and determination he showed. Relocating away from his wife and child was impossible. Some of the other grooms or hot walkers were not going to go so I would lose them to another trainer and replacing them when I got back would have been a down grade.
Being, if I recall a 4-5 day a week meet, in the middle of nowhere, how would people without cars get out to a store to buy food. Oh, and no refrigerator either. Or air conditioning. And I could go on and on.

You make it sound so simple but it was anything but. Don't you think I thought of that? Also, I had 3 kids in middle or high school. Yeah, let me leave during the beginning of school for them so I can be a long way away for a limited meeting with many dark days.

It was just not practical. Period. For me and for most of us.

Without understanding what life really was like in that situation you have all the answers. But reality of life gets in the way of your assumed practical argument.
I suppose you are right though. I just needed to GET BETTER.
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Old 01-09-2024, 09:48 PM   #34
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Speaking strictly for myself, I had a husband and wife that were grooms and they had a daughter in 2nd-3rd grade. School would start before the meet was over. So they just leave? One groom was handicapped. It was a struggle to walk, but he did it. He was a local hero for the heart and determination he showed. Relocating away from his wife and child was impossible. Some of the other grooms or hot walkers were not going to go so I would lose them to another trainer and replacing them when I got back would have been a down grade.
Being, if I recall a 4-5 day a week meet, in the middle of nowhere, how would people without cars get out to a store to buy food. Oh, and no refrigerator either. Or air conditioning. And I could go on and on.

You make it sound so simple but it was anything but. Don't you think I thought of that? Also, I had 3 kids in middle or high school. Yeah, let me leave during the beginning of school for them so I can be a long way away for a limited meeting with many dark days.

It was just not practical. Period. For me and for most of us.

Without understanding what life really was like in that situation you have all the answers. But reality of life gets in the way of your assumed practical argument.
I suppose you are right though. I just needed to GET BETTER.
So, how is it that you are singling out Colonial when there are other boutique meets?
The same could be said for Keeneland, Saratoga, Kentucky Downs. Etc.
In my estimation, you view the existence of Colonial as a major inconvenience and I would also surmise that if the place never conducted another thoroughbred meet again, you would not lose a moment of sleep.
Well, with all candor, that isn't how the world works.
Obviously, the track operates well , thank you. That means lots of other trainers and back stretch workers have figured it out. And....It is NOT in the middle of nowhere. The track is located 30 minutes from down town Richmond. 40 minutes from Williamsburg and an hour from The Tidewater cities...
I did not state nor did I imply that any one person should "get better"...I clearly directed my comment at Maryland racing.

Last edited by thespaah; 01-09-2024 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 01-09-2024, 10:33 PM   #35
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And....It is NOT in the middle of nowhere. The track is located 30 minutes from down town Richmond. 40 minutes from Williamsburg and an hour from The Tidewater cities...
I live in the area, there is no doubt colonial is in the middle of nowhere. The location and plant itself is one of the biggest travesty’s in Horse Racing. Worst design of a plant ever
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Old 01-10-2024, 09:41 AM   #36
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So, how is it that you are singling out Colonial when there are other boutique meets?
The same could be said for Keeneland, Saratoga, Kentucky Downs. Etc.
In my estimation, you view the existence of Colonial as a major inconvenience and I would also surmise that if the place never conducted another thoroughbred meet again, you would not lose a moment of sleep.
Well, with all candor, that isn't how the world works.
Obviously, the track operates well , thank you. That means lots of other trainers and back stretch workers have figured it out. And....It is NOT in the middle of nowhere. The track is located 30 minutes from down town Richmond. 40 minutes from Williamsburg and an hour from The Tidewater cities...
And I did not state nor did I imply that any one person should "get better"...I clearly directed my comment at Maryland racing.

We were talking about 1997. We were also talking about a totally different management and all the rocky roads that usually follow with a start up project. The purses were less than what Laurels purses would be in the fall.
All those rocky roads fell at the feet of the horses, owners, trainers, workers, vets, valets, riders and more. If you google Colonial Downs 1997 you will find plenty of articles that will help you better understand it. Don't take my word for it, read what Vinnie Perrone wrote about it. Or others. But what you won't read is what I talked about. That is because I will no longer lose stalls, be sent to Bowie or the off track not racing to train, or any other heavy handed tactics to make me support something that was brutal in it's early years.

I'll address some of your comments.

You: you view the existence of Colonial as a major inconvenience

Me: In 1997 that is exactly what it was.

You: I would also surmise that if the place never conducted another thoroughbred meet again, you would not lose a moment of sleep.

Me: I left the game in 2001. It no longer matters to me.

You: Well, with all candor, that isn't how the world works.

Me: With all candor, you are going to teach me about how the world works?
C'mon man. Tone it down. I certainly don't need that from you.

You: Obviously, the track operates well , thank you. That means lots of other trainers and back stretch workers have figured it out.

Me: Yeah, 27 years and new ownership later.
I wonder if any of them think to thank those horses, grooms, hot walkers, owners, trainers and everyone that bore the brunt of the sacrifice given to be able to sell it to a management that did figure it out. I doubt it.


You: And....It is NOT in the middle of nowhere.

Me: Obviously our definitions of middle of nowhere are different .

You: I did not state nor did I imply that any one person should "get better"...I clearly directed my comment at Maryland racing.

Me: Yeah, I know that . I took a cheap shot at you there, but because you had takin multiple cheap shots at me, I thought you might enjoy one in return.



Kind of a shame that things get personnel when discussing racing sometimes. Fans are passionate about the game. That is wonderful. I as well am passionate about the game even after 23 years away from it. It let me down in one aspect in my estimation but years later, it is trying to get better. Won't help me and my career but hopefully it will help others with that same passion I felt.
I try and share that tricky thing called truth and what actually happened for fans that care to know. I don't honestly know if you do or not. It's fine with me either way.

I'll end with this: When I was a green hotwalker and first starting out in 1972 at Laurel there was an old groom that had worked on the track his whole life. I asked him one day, "Is the game on the level"? His answer was " The games on the level, it's some of the people in it that aren't".

In hindsight, that was probably the most honest and accurate sentence ever spoken about horse racing that I was ever told.

Thank you Mr. Berry ! Gosh, was he so right.



Good luck to you sir.
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Old 01-10-2024, 11:24 AM   #37
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The common refrain when people go to Colonial Downs is "it's in the middle of nowhere." It's not said derisively, just matter of fact.
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Old 01-10-2024, 11:51 AM   #38
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Churchill Downs paid $2.75 billion for Colonial and the rights to build historical racing machines in other parts of Virginia. they also have rights to different deals there.

whoever is running Churchill Downs is very smart and well set up to be one of the biggest and strongest companies in the gaming industry. imagine how much they can make if horse racing ever comes back. i promise someday the game will be strong again.
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Old 01-10-2024, 12:14 PM   #39
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Churchill Downs paid $2.75 billion for Colonial and the rights to build historical racing machines in other parts of Virginia. they also have rights to different deals there.

whoever is running Churchill Downs is very smart and well set up to be one of the biggest and strongest companies in the gaming industry. imagine how much they can make if horse racing ever comes back. i promise someday the game will be strong again.
What is an "historical racing machine," please?
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Old 01-10-2024, 12:19 PM   #40
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What is an "historical racing machine," please?
i honestly have no idea.


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Old 01-10-2024, 12:26 PM   #41
Ruffian1
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What is an "historical racing machine," please?
In Virginia , I always thought that was Secretariat.
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Old 01-10-2024, 02:00 PM   #42
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The Historical Racing Machines are basically Slot machines. But they are somehow based on past races. That enables them to be legal in states (like Kentucky) where regular slot machines are not legal.

I don't play them so am not really knowledgeable but they are basically a loop-hole.
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Old 01-10-2024, 02:10 PM   #43
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Friday 1/12

Races 2, 6, and 8 are 1 mile dirt races.
1 turn, 2nd fin-line.

2-turn races are great. In general, I prefer 2 turns.
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Old 01-10-2024, 04:31 PM   #44
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LOL - Had to go read it for myself.

Maybe those old hand crank games?
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Old 01-10-2024, 07:44 PM   #45
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What is an "historical racing machine," please?
It's an idiotic machine that runs videos of old races without ID'ing where or when and it occurred and you bet on who's going to win.





Last edited by JustRalph; 01-10-2024 at 07:46 PM.
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