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11-24-2020, 09:06 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,761
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Churchill to replace turf course.
Quote:
The current Matt Winn Turf Course, a seven-eighths-of-a-mile oval situated inside the one-mile dirt track, is the original surface when grass racing debuted 35 years ago at Churchill Downs in 1985. It is comprised of four-inch high Kentucky 31 Fescue (90%) and Bluegrass (10%) grown in a three-inch topsoil layer over a 13-inch course masonry sand base.
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https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...ew-turf-course
I'm amazed it lasted this long with only a three inch topsoil layer.
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11-24-2020, 09:27 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceBored
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FWIW i think they actually started turf racing in 1987.
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11-24-2020, 11:04 AM
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#3
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,318
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A wider course will make for much more equitable trips.....Just look at Longchamps: as the course straightens for the home stretch, it gets VERY wide to allow late runners ROOM to go by the field's stragglers.
Most INNER turf courses are not wide enough to allow that.
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"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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11-24-2020, 11:13 AM
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#4
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46zilzal
A wider course will make for much more equitable trips.....Just look at Longchamps: as the course straightens for the home stretch, it gets VERY wide to allow late runners ROOM to go by the field's stragglers.
Most INNER turf courses are not wide enough to allow that.
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I think mostly they are widening it to be able to use more rail settings, and it is only going to be five feet wider. They can't really move it out as the dirt course is there, so they are likely expanding inward which will mean tighter turns and an even shorter course when the rail is at zero.
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11-24-2020, 11:23 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I think mostly they are widening it to be able to use more rail settings, and it is only going to be five feet wider. They can't really move it out as the dirt course is there, so they are likely expanding inward which will mean tighter turns and an even shorter course when the rail is at zero.
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Plus shrinking the infield, which would probably reduce capacity on Derby Day.
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11-24-2020, 12:27 PM
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#6
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Just another Facist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 52,877
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Isn’t this the course that stays hard as a rock?
I don’t follow as much anymore. But it used to be a runway or is my memory wrong?
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11-24-2020, 01:14 PM
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#7
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I think mostly they are widening it to be able to use more rail settings, and it is only going to be five feet wider. They can't really move it out as the dirt course is there, so they are likely expanding inward which will mean tighter turns and an even shorter course when the rail is at zero.
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That too!
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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11-24-2020, 01:19 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRalph
Isn’t this the course that stays hard as a rock?
I don’t follow as much anymore. But it used to be a runway or is my memory wrong?
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I’ve never had that impression. I feel likes it’s been relatively fine in the Spring, but in the November meet it has been tough for years. Often the inside paths would be problematic really anytime it rained, and of course the recovery period in the Fall is almost non-existent.
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11-24-2020, 01:42 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,305
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The video below shows Churchill Downs as shot from a drone.
Note that the infield appears a little lower in elevation than the turf course.
Expanding inward may result in the new turf course being a degree or two more steeply banked than the current turf course.
If that turns out to be the case, I'd expect horses attempting to wire a field on the turf to be negatively impacted a bit. How much depends on the change in banking.
-jp
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11-24-2020, 01:55 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P
The video below shows Churchill Downs as shot from a drone.
Note that the infield appears a little lower in elevation than the turf course.
Expanding inward may result in the new turf course being a degree or two more steeply banked than the current turf course.
If that turns out to be the case, I'd expect horses attempting to wire a field on the turf to be negatively impacted a bit. How much depends on the change in banking.
https://youtu.be/r_5qaTypG44
-jp
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It also shows what a silly project the 2004 renovations were. Those luxury box towers just dwarf the Twin Spires, the track's trademark.
People don't like tearing anything down and building something new and beautiful anymore for some reason. If you go to any of the grand old racetracks in Europe, they almost all have state of the art new grandstands. Nothing of the "historic character" of Churchill is preserved there anyway- all you see is the gigantic structures they built on top. But where you do still see the "historic character" is when you try to place a bet at a third floor window on a big race day and are stuck in a crowd in a narrow wooden corridor.
So why not start from scratch and build something large and comfortable, to accomodate everyone who comes to the Derby, with a replica of the Twin Spires on top?
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11-24-2020, 02:32 PM
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#11
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,318
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Churchill Downs Incorporated has many a time demonstrated being really CHEAP and philistine when in comes to pening anything.
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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11-24-2020, 04:30 PM
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#12
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Just another Facist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 52,877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy
I’ve never had that impression. I feel likes it’s been relatively fine in the Spring, but in the November meet it has been tough for years. Often the inside paths would be problematic really anytime it rained, and of course the recovery period in the Fall is almost non-existent.
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Thanks
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WE ARE THE DUMBEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET!
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11-25-2020, 09:05 AM
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#13
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Traded By Cubs
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 2 miles north of Wrigley Field
Posts: 5,339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
Plus shrinking the infield, which would probably reduce capacity on Derby Day.
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Plenty of sitting and/or standing place that they will be only too glad to sell for a nice buck or $20 or more.
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11-25-2020, 09:33 AM
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#14
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,318
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The big courses in NY Chicago and Florida are good, but nothing beats Woodbine's outer....Now that is a FAIR stretch
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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11-25-2020, 09:48 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Grove City, OH
Posts: 428
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How does the CD course compare to Keenland. Is it 7/8 as well?
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