Bill Finley - Cheaters: Lock them up

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

Apparently, Baby Cuomo.

That's the type of pirate that commandeers a captainless ship, plunders it, and discards it.

The last thing i would do is to hold my breath that Cuomo will do anything that suggest he cares about the GAME before he cares about himself.

[rastajenk]

At least we can agree on that.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I disagree with you here.

Poker used to be a game for old farts too...but the young people have taken to it like ducks to water.

And I don't know what you mean when you talk about having to wait 20-30 minutes in-between betting opportunities; I see two and three races going off at the same time.

IMO...it isn't the age factor or the boredom factor that are keeping young gamblers away from our game; it's the combination of the high takeout and the game's integrity issues.

You can't have the highest taxed game also be the one with the worst reputation, integrity-wise.

New fans won't get the simulcasting thing until they learn. For the most part, they bet what's right in front of them.
I gotta tell ya, for people new to the sport, takeout is a mystery.
Here, the next time you go to the track, strike a up a conversation with someone who you think may be a newer player. Without "leading" ask them what takeout is. I bet they will look as though you just asked them how the International Space Station stays in orbit.
Integrity issues goes back to my earlier comment about the random guy that claims "you know the races are fixed, don't you?"
Look, at the end of the day, the sport needs an infusion of new people to carry on. Otherwise the sport is in trouble.
Let's look at the facts. There are four days on which horse racing gets enough interest to draw large numbers on track and large mutuel pools.
Kentucky Derby day, Preakness day( party in the infield) and Belmont Stakes day and Breeders Cup Saturday. Otherwise, there are a grand total of three race meets which average over 10,000 per day, Del Mar, Saratoga and Keeneland.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

The last thing i would do is to hold my breath that Cuomo will do anything that suggest he cares about the GAME before he cares about himself.

Cuomo is just another politician in a long line of politicians that merely tolerate the existence of horse racing. That is only because the sport generates revenue for State coffers.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

I recall a day spent on track in late October, 1989. On track paid attendance at Santa Anita that afternoon was (if memory serves) somewhere around 18,000. This wasn't a special event day mind you... rather it was just a typical Fri afternoon card.

It kills me to go to Santa Anita these days and see paid attendance on track of (what?) 3500-4000.

Hint: It's worse at most other venues.

A few weeks back I bet a race at PID (Presque Isle Downs.) In that race, Mario Pino got his 5000th career win. Katie Mikolay interviewed him immediately following that race. The interview lasted several minutes. Visible in the background during the entire interview was the track apron and grandstand. Here's a rider who's as fearless, honest, hard working, and humble as anyone who's ever gotten a leg up. Yet, I saw a grand total of exactly 1 fan in the background during the entire interview. (I'm not making that up.)

I've posted this elsewhere but...

According to numbers on the Jockey Club website, in 2003, all sources handle for thoroughbred racing conducted in North America was $15.9 billion. Last year, for calendar year 2011, all sources handle for thoroughbred racing conducted in North America came in at $11.4 billion. That’s a loss of 28.3% in just nine years. (The loss is even worse if you adjust it for inflation.)

That, by itself, should be enough to send a red flag up the pole.

In 2009, we did the first HANA Survey. In that survey, 75 percent of bettors responding named high takeout as the primary reason they bet less than they otherwise would. In that survey, more than 70 percent identified an outdated tote system and odds that change after the bell as the number two reason they bet less than they otherwise would. In that survey, more than two thirds of players responding named racing’s drug problem as the number three reason they bet less than they otherwise would.

Not only that, but in survey after survey, HANA’s horseplayer members have consistently confirmed those original findings.

From a market research standpoint, I have very little trouble identifying the obvious elephants sitting in the room as follows:

1. High Takeout.

2. Obsolete Tote System/Odds that change after the bell (translates to lack of integrity.)

3. DRUGS - translates to lack of integrity (and what we are talking about in this thread.)

There are REASONS for where we as an industry find ourselves.

Until Racing actually takes on those reasons, there is every reason to expect that racing will continue to decline in popularity from the public at large - and there is every reason to expect that the long term downward handle trend will continue.



-jp

.

Beautifully stated and spot on. I would absolutely agree that the 3 items listed are the main issues I would focus on (takeout, tote issues and drugs). The biggest problem is "we" care more about this than anyone in a position to do something about it.

Without the motivation (most notably --FINANCIAL) or desire, who is going to change the way things are in this industry? It appears it is too costly to invest in changes to the 3 issues you mentioned.

Takeout reduction means less money to the track. That obviously won't change.

Tote board enhancements cost money. Next.

Drug erradication means signifcant testing...costly. Next.

Racing is at a "as good as it gets" state. It will NEVER get better.

[proximity]

when we talk about owner accountability here we aren't talking about good men like mr dahlman or mr mcschell suddenly getting a single positive after decades of clean racing. we are talking about SUPER OWNERS who in many cases are the ones who CREATE super trainers, not the other way around.

at parx juan carlos can be suspended, but the red and blue vials can be easily transferred to j guadalupe. or perhaps it is just a statistical anomaly that j guadalupe's win percentage has risen from 3% to 25%, lol? i hope people who use ed bain or hth software are getting updated stats, lol.

at parx, jayne vaders can be suspended, but just plug in ed auwarter and it is business as usual for everything except mr auwarter's statistics which rise from 3% winners to 22%.

friends, it doesn't matter who the trainer is. you'd think that maybe after some of these suspensions the powers that be would call off the dogs for a bit and maybe have the "public" think that "geez, maybe so and so really is a great horse trainer..." but with time teaching (most) "rival" trainers to "relax and enjoy it" and only a few zealots like us p.a. members who actually care... it is easier just to hand the ball off to the next great 30% "horseman" lol.

[edgar]

It doesn't take a great deal of savvy to recognize the signs. Look at Secretariat then compare to some modern and not so long ago examples (without naming names on mere speculation). It's like looking at an old time bodybuilder compared to the grotesque specimens of late. Consider the 5K claimer that changes owners then all of a sudden starts winning alw30k or the 25k claim that overnight is competitive at 100k. If I suspect a horse or trainer are dirty I will not bet for or against them. I look for healthy specimens that look happy on the track and are in decent company and have consistent records. Like I said earlier you can vote with your money, it's the only thing the authorities care about.