What percent of the people that gamble win consistently

[InFront]

2% is not even close. In my opinion I think it is way, way less than 1%. Think about it out of all the gamblers you know over decades how many are good enough to earn their sole living from it? 1 out of 100, 1 out of 1,000?

But the funny thing so many claim they do. They brag they win this or that or how they hit a nice score this day or that day. You hear their stories all the time. Then you find out that most if not all have real jobs elsewhere. The bottom line is I think way less than 1% show consistent profits year after year let alone enough to earn a living at. These are the hard facts. And I would say the majority of these are not even horse or dog players more like sport bettors or poker players. People that earn their sole living are called professional gamblers or as some like to call it advantage players. That is they have found a way to produce a longterm mathamatical edge on a certain "game of chance" based on pure skill NOT luck.

Now there are some others who earn their sole living on selling products or picks that deals with games of chance. Could be software sellers, tout services, public tv/newspaper handciappers, racing products, books, systems, etc. These guys may call themselves professional players but are not UNLESS they also earn a living from their actual wagers year after year.

[twindouble]

InFront;

You telling me that these so-called "advantage" players have a mathematical system that can predict the winners, when all this horse flesh, human intervention, and chaos that comes into play? Plus pick 2,3 and 4 losers in the gimmicks? Or is the latter excluded? Man, sounds like my dream come true. I hope they put those numbers up for sale, we all can be winners. Then we can challenge that less then one percent at the top. I'm sure they are smart enough to take "advantage" of those nice rebates on top of that brilliant system. Better yet, I'll create my own numbers and blow Mr. Beyer out of the water and a few others, sell my house and become a whale. Isn't life great?

Think about this.

Quote; You can create a smoke screen of impenetrable complexity around your operations and call it brilliant innovations.

Have a good day,


T.D.

[InFront]

What I said was not a mathamatical system but maintain a mathamatical edge meaning they are able to maintain longterm profits. They have an "advantage" over the game of chance they play. Whether on horse/dog racing, sport betting or even casino games such as poker and blackjack.

But as I posted the rarity of such a person is almost null. They are so rare you'll probably never meet one. They don't win based on luck or how the stars are lined up but win due to incredible knowledge and pure skill which probably 99.9% of players don't have even though many think they do which is why they have 9-5 jobs or other sources of income. These " true pros" have accomplished something that millions before them have tried but failed at.

Now there are those that play the horses or gamble on other games for pure enjoyment and do it only as a hobby which is fine. Sure most of them would love to cross over to the "pro" side but probably is one of the most difficult things to ever do. While these comments may sound negative I'm just telling like it is but sure many forum members will agree on this.

[atlasaxis]

Excellent thread on this topic back in December started by Ron Tiller, including an ever insightful article by Barry Meadow from ATM on page 2 which answers the TS's original question.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...9&page=1&pp=15

[acorn54]

isn't it possible to get tax records from the irs. i mean when you file taxes you put down your occupation. maybe the irs releases this info not on individuals but as a class of taxpayers labled "professional gamblers". i wouldn't know where to look on the internet but maybe someone more computer savvy than me could find the info and post it here.

[twindouble]

Originally Posted by GaryG

Hey TD.....good to see you back! Hope all is well.

All is well Gary, thanks for the welcome back. I have three great grandchildren now. I still have all my hair, and the brain hasn't thrown me any curves yet. Can't stand these darn bifocals though. I hope to have another 20 years playing the horses. I wonder if that will break the record?

Regards,

T.D.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Define success?

How much would someone betting horses have to make to be considered a success??Half as much as a middle class income???Or twice as much since it supposedly lacks credibility??

If payoffs fall underneath the taxable payoff,which I believe is less than $800.Why would somone have tax records unless you feel that unless somone routinely cashes $800 and up tickets they are failures???

That's the sense that I'm getting here is that unless you are in the top 30% earning bracket in the world,but as a bettor,you fall into the unacceptable category.

I guess it just goes against the grain of people's values.It's something to be proud of to be a man,stand up,get educated,go to work,work hard and make a middle class or better income.But if you do exactly the same and accomplish the same betting it isn't credible?

I'm not a fulltime,bigtime,successful horseplayer but I've had success.I wish more players that do beat this game would come out of the woodwork.I know Raybo for one has done so in the past.HANA has profiled some success stories.Saving the game will take more winners to come out and make themselves known IMO as part of the lure of the game much like poker.Tracks aren't atttracting players so it's up to other horseplayers.I'm a $20-40 bettor and have only been in the game since 1996 so I'm far too small of a fish to be an advocate of jack.

Something tells me that unles these people are allowed to sleep on your couch for a year and be glued to the hip for 365 days they still won't believe a thing though.

[InFront]

Not sure if someone could access ones yearly tax forms to find out but that does bring up something I once asked. Years ago in the 80's and in my own business I once asked my tax accountant who was part of a big firm at that time has he ever done someone's taxes year after year and their occupation was a "professional gambler". He said only once and it was actually written right on his tax form this way. He said it was a guy who played both blackjack and horses. Of course he couldn't tell me anything more but that just goes to show you how rare a professional gambler is that is one that makes a decent amount of money year after year to pay taxes, take deductions and list it as their sole profession.

[raybo]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

technically the term gambling is inclusive of wagering on uncertain events.

however most for-profit players do not consider themselves to be "gambling"

gambling has gained an unfair negative connotation.

Agreed, it's "investing".

[raybo]

Nobody knows for sure but the general concensus says between 2% and 5%, worldwide.

The reason a higher percentage on this forum claim to be winners is probably due to the fact that this forum does not represent all players world wide.

IMO, this forum contains, as members, a higher class of player. More intelligent and much more technically advanced than the set of "all players".

The demographic of this forum is skewed towards the high end of players.

[twindouble]

[QUOTE=raybo]Nobody knows for sure but the general concensus says between 2% and 5%, worldwide.

The reason a higher percentage on this forum claim to be winners is probably due to the fact that this forum does not represent all players world wide.

IMO, this forum contains, as members, a higher class of player. More intelligent and much more technically advanced than the set of "all players".

The demographic of this forum is skewed towards the high end of players.[/QUOTE]

Raybo; I wouldn't for moment question the level of intelligence on this forum. Reminds me of the first business I had, encountering people from all walks of life, lawyers, accountants, engineers, school teachers, farmers, and many with less than a high school education. Guess what? They all drove trucks, like we all play the horses, those truck drivers lived and died on the roads like all other drivers, somewhat like playing the horses. The educated ones didn't start their own sorority, they commingled, ate the same food and looked out for one another in every way. As a matter of fact the traditional language of truckers still exists today, they didn't throw it to wind because computers assist them in their job by keeping logs, inventory, more efficient trucks, directions, and better living conditions while on the road. Some things just can't be taken to "a higher level" because your still driving trucks and still betting on the horses. The conditions will always be the same for both, no one or group can hijack either and turn them into something their not. Primarily because the horse flesh and humanity involved in both. In my opinion the wall street marketers here will fail at that attempt because they are discarding the core that keeps racing in business.


Good luck,

T.D.

[prospector]

there is a great quote from mickey rooney, the actor
" i once lost $2 at the races...since then i've lost almost 3 million trying to get it back..

[SMOO]

Originally Posted by nobeyerspls

I go to the track (or simulcast facility) two or three times a week and I don't think that I'm gambling. In fact, I hold that the successful horseplayer has an aversion to gambling. He would never buy a lottery ticket, play a slot machine, or engage in any random-outcome game of chance.
As a parimutuel wagerer (my substitute term) I try to master the two elements that can get me to overcome the takeout: handicapping and money management. Said another way it's not just what you bet it's how you bet it. A great deal of discipline is involved including skipping more races than you bet.
I do see the gambling types there though and there is a commonality among them. They play most of the races, use their favorite numbers sometimes, bet more when they're ahead, and are often influenced by the board. I saw one guy cash for a large amount and then play a $100 quikpik exacta box. You'll see them for a few days and then they're gone again, probably rebuilding a bankroll.
No need to feel sorry for anyone. We're a free society which means that we're free to do stupid things. The winning horseplay isn't going home with the track's money, its source is those that lost.

One of the best posts I've read on the subject.

[strapper]

Before OTB came into the mix I would say 5 percent of the patrons came away winners; now, with all the added tracks my guess is less than 1 per cent are winners....just too much temptation and not enough knowledge away from your home track. I think of the 100 serious horseplayers I know maybe one or two are career winners. Of course, it's just a guess because you never really know.

[twindouble]

Originally Posted by prospector

there is a great quote from mickey rooney, the actor
" i once lost $2 at the races...since then i've lost almost 3 million trying to get it back..

I literally bump into Mickey Rooney in the elevator at Green Mountain race track. Had him cornered so I had him sign my racing form. That was a fun day for all in the club house, back then it didn't cost much to get a booth. He put on a real show routing his 3-2 shots home.



T.D.