 |
|
07-19-2021, 10:25 PM
|
#76
|
|
Sartin Methodology Fan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 328
|
It is nothing short of a miracle that nothing major happened. Look at this photo:
__________________
"And there they go! It's Toupée going on ahead, Long Underwear has fallen behind, Toothpaste is being squeezed out on the rail as Banana joins the bunch, and Cabbage is trailing by a head."
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 05:06 AM
|
#77
|
|
Top Horse Analytics
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 12,303
|
Pretty violent looking picture and pretty violent looking when I watched on TV.
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 09:52 AM
|
#78
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,800
|
|
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 10:48 AM
|
#79
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
|
I really don't believe any jockey on this incident. Remember, jockeys have a professional obligation to lie about incidents that cause DQ's. They NEVER admit "I fouled him" even when they did.
|
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 11:06 AM
|
#80
|
|
@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
I really don't believe any jockey on this incident. Remember, jockeys have a professional obligation to lie about incidents that cause DQ's. They NEVER admit "I fouled him" even when they did.
|
People are using this to attack the whip rule. I personally think the rule in New Jersey is probably going too far, but I don't think it is near the issue many others do.There hasn't been a single incident I've seen or heard about until the Haskell and I think it is being falsely blamed in that case.
No, I've never ridden a horse (at least in a race) but I find that argument silly anyway. I've seen thousands and thousands of races. I don't think the lack of using a whip had anything to do with this. Prat was looking to engage Mandaloun on the inside and simply cut it too close IMO. Everything about his body language and the way he moved tells me he wanted to move inside, not that the horse drifted on its own. He did nothing to try to stop it.
|
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 11:31 AM
|
#81
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,666
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Prat was looking to engage Mandaloun on the inside and simply cut it too close IMO. Everything about his body language and the way he moved tells me he wanted to move inside, not that the horse drifted on its own. He did nothing to try to stop it.
|
And in most cases that would be a mistake. My brother, who works as mnr's clocker and identifier, has the sharpest eyes I know of, and has hustled book for numerous leading jocks, used to chastise his riders for allowing a wide-mover with momentum to drift in next to an opponent. Gary said that turns a test of finishing kick into a test of guts by giving the inside horse a chance to get brave. And he's right.
Last edited by mountainman; 07-20-2021 at 11:32 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 11:35 AM
|
#82
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
All out hand urging in a million dollar race. Not much time for thinking just reacting. No doubt in my mind that Prat uses the whip at any other track
|
How does a journeyman jockey use the whip at Monmouth for safety reasons and a jock like prat doesn’t.
Allan
|
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 11:39 AM
|
#83
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggestal99
How does a journeyman jockey use the whip at Monmouth for safety reasons and a jock like prat doesn’t.
Allan
|
https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne..._advantage_123
Allan
|
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 11:53 AM
|
#84
|
|
The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,814
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggestal99
How does a journeyman jockey use the whip at Monmouth for safety reasons and a jock like prat doesn’t.
Allan
|
Graded stake and purse $$$
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
|
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 11:55 AM
|
#85
|
|
@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman
And in most cases that would be a mistake. My brother, who works as mnr's clocker and identifier, has the sharpest eyes I know of, and has hustled book for numerous leading jocks, used to chastise his riders for allowing a wide-mover with momentum to drift in next to an opponent. Gary said that turns a test of finishing kick into a test of guts by giving the inside horse a chance to get brave. And he's right.
|
I'd agree unless it is a horse known to pull itself up in the clear. Don't think HRC has every really shown that to my eye but maybe the connections thought so as the removal of blinkers and O'Neil's comments before the race seemed to suggest.
|
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 12:01 PM
|
#86
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,666
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I'd agree unless it is a horse known to pull itself up in the clear. Don't think HRC has every really shown that to my eye but maybe the connections thought so as the removal of blinkers and O'Neil's comments before the race seemed to suggest.
|
Not saying it's the case here, but lots of trainers like to rationalize that an out-finished horse in their care never saw or was fully engaged by the winner, and thus had untapped resources. It's usually self-comforting nonsense. Sometimes engendered by jocks.
Last edited by mountainman; 07-20-2021 at 12:04 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 12:05 PM
|
#87
|
|
@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggestal99
|
Hearing was Friday, no news yet.
|
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 12:20 PM
|
#88
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman
And in most cases that would be a mistake. My brother, who works as mnr's clocker and identifier, has the sharpest eyes I know of, and has hustled book for numerous leading jocks, used to chastise his riders for allowing a wide-mover with momentum to drift in next to an opponent. Gary said that turns a test of finishing kick into a test of guts by giving the inside horse a chance to get brave. And he's right.
|
That's a good point. Here's a good example:
Every horse Game on Dude saw, he fought off. But he didn't see Drosselmeyer because that one was way out in the middle of the racetrack.
|
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 12:26 PM
|
#89
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
People are using this to attack the whip rule. I personally think the rule in New Jersey is probably going too far, but I don't think it is near the issue many others do.There hasn't been a single incident I've seen or heard about until the Haskell and I think it is being falsely blamed in that case.
No, I've never ridden a horse (at least in a race) but I find that argument silly anyway. I've seen thousands and thousands of races. I don't think the lack of using a whip had anything to do with this. Prat was looking to engage Mandaloun on the inside and simply cut it too close IMO. Everything about his body language and the way he moved tells me he wanted to move inside, not that the horse drifted on its own. He did nothing to try to stop it.
|
Given your description, whats a fair suspension for such a ride?
|
|
|
|
|
07-20-2021, 12:29 PM
|
#90
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
That's a good point. Here's a good example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i6A_Sr6Cvo
Every horse Game on Dude saw, he fought off. But he didn't see Drosselmeyer because that one was way out in the middle of the racetrack. |
ahhhh good times, remember that day/night well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
