Horses Suspensions For Drug Violators

[Grits]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

and the game will change................which may be the real point..........and I am talking about trainers going out of business because owners won't use them............

BINGO, and it couldn't come too soon. If this is what it takes to rid the sport of those that cheat, why in the world would owners not be in favor of this move? In the long run, and not too far down the road, THEY would be the beneficiaries, more than anyone else, including each of us.

I applaud the Ontario Racing Commission. They mean business; they ain't playin' and its time someone stepped up. They are showing far more guts and commitment to clean up the sport than any of our regions and officials have.

And yes, I do think Hong Kong is smarter than we are. 0--tolerance. What is so disturbing about all of this, the cheating, is that unlike any other sport, baseball, football, etc, only this one requires our money in order that it be delivered day in, day out.

You want to juice yourself with steroids, fine, I could care less its your body and you can lie to a Senate sub-committee until hell freezes over. I've not ever known a baseball team I'd walk across the street to watch. Can't say the same regarding football. Still, my money isn't the foundation that makes the game possible in the afternoon and evening.

[ManeMediaMogul]

Now you know how trainers feel about the trainer responsibility rule.

The idea is to keep owners from rewarding the cheaters by hiring them.

Don't you want a level playing field for your horses?

Or, are you one of the lemmings that hire the guys atop the standings and ride the latest wave of "motion lotion" to the winners' circle?

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by ManeMediaMogul

Now you know how trainers feel about the trainer responsibility rule.

The idea is to keep owners from rewarding the cheaters by hiring them.

Don't you want a level playing field for your horses?

Or, are you one of the lemmings that hire the guys atop the standings and ride the latest wave of "motion lotion" to the winners' circle?

Again, give a list of potential drug trainers for owners to avoid. How many trainers get nailed a year on the Ontario circuit 3? Maybe 4? And how many of them are the top trainers?

Are you saying the top 10 trainers are the top 10 cheaters?

[njcurveball]

Originally Posted by Cangamble

Again, give a list of potential drug trainers for owners to avoid.

GOOD IDEA!

[Kelso]

Originally Posted by john del riccio

if this starts to become the way of the future, the game will fall apart in a hurry because owners will take control and leave.

Or .... a lot of trainers will assiduously avoid CHEATING and ABUSING HORSES so that they don't lose owners and, probably quickly, their own livlihoods.

I think it's a reasonable surmise that trainers generally do only what the owners allow them to get away with doing. In a way, it's like ignoring your teenager racing your new Lincoln. He'll keep doing it until you stop him; and if he wrecks the car it's YOUR insurance rates that take the hit.

[DeanT]

Originally Posted by onefast99

I will make sure if this goes into effect in NJ that if a substance is used on one of my horses I will have an indemnification agreement in effect between the parties that are in possession of the meds and the administrator of the meds. That as an owner I am not a responsible party to such an act by the vetinarian who is being told by the trainer to use such banned substances. I would urge anyone who owns horses to read up on any and all banned substances and find out what alternate drugs or therapies may be applied that are legal. This will impact the horse racing industry greatly.

One fast,

These will not affect you as an honest owner. This is for Class One positives, not a banamine, ulcer meds, or even a procaine positive. The horse will not be suspended for that.

It is for illegal pain killers, blood builders or TCO2 violations. Nothing a vet can legally do, or prescribe. This is for owners, trainers and vets who live on the dark side, not for honest people. It is a direct result of several owners who get an EPO positive, and within a crack of the whip are with a paper trainer using the same thing. Then when he gets a positive, they jump to another and so on, making our game look like three card monte.

[onefast99]

This is by far one of the best threads yet on this forum. I have spoken to my trianer(s) yesterday and I emailed the three vets we use in NJ, Fla and Louisiana that they need to email me any medications that are being administered to my horses. Thus far everyone has agreed to do this and maybe it is a wake-up call for me to be more involved in this end of the industry. I appreciate the responses by the majority of the people who I respect on this forum. As a horse lover as well as an owner I never want to see any of these animals abused so that the trainer can pad his win percentage which in turn gets more owners to gravitate to him. Thanks everyone for opening my eyes on this issue! Good luck at the track today!

[magwell]

Only way thats going to happen is no DRUGS at all that wont happen... so as Pittsburg Phil used to say lets just "take up the problem of the day" and make some money .....or just go back to bed

[Hajck Hillstrom]

Originally Posted by onefast99

This is by far one of the best threads yet on this forum.

I have to agree. The discussion here brings up many valid points. As a serious punter, and an owner for just the last year, I appreciate the perspectives of the contributors here. The opinions illustrate how the drug situation has convoluted the issues.

The simple truth is that ultimately the trainer must be held accountable. He instructs the vet on medication usage. Holding an owner accountable won't move the game forward. Vets must share in the trainer's accountability as they are essentially pulling the trigger.

I understand that the ultimate responsibility falls on the owner, but his penalty will be felt where he feels it most, somewhere in the region of his coffers.

Winning through pharmaceuticals is regretably the accepted practice, and the saddest part of this practice is that it is one that has been accepted by a very wide range of "horsemen" for some time now, and we are naive if we think the syringe is limited to the training shed, as many young horses experience EGH long before they get to the sales ring.

There is a reason that the sport has the unsavory reputation it has attained in this country, as opposed to the elevated status it enjoys in Japan. Too many people in this country feel that it is only considered cheating if you get caught.

The industry is in complete disarray, and until they address the source of their problems, their ineffective efforts to correct them will continue to fall short.

[Grits]

Hijack states:

The simple truth is that ultimately the trainer must be held accountable. He instructs the vet on medication usage.

And herein lies a great deal of the problem. How many trainers on record are veterinarians? How many have been to years of vet school to attain the knowledge required to medicate an animal?

So what is it that enables a trainer to be qualified on a daily basis to tell a veterinarian how to do the job he has spent years training for?

If memory doesn't fail me, the only one I can recall is John Kimmel. Though, I'm sure there may be others.

Trainers have overstepped their bounds, and their level of skill.

[cj's dad]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

I have no problem with the vet + trainer + owner being held responsible.
A horse that is suspended takes livelihood away from all 3.

Let the horse continue to run but put an asterisk next to his name in the program !!

[boomman]

Originally Posted by onefast99

This is by far one of the best threads yet on this forum. I have spoken to my trainer(s) yesterday and I emailed the three vets we use in NJ, Fla and Louisiana that they need to email me any medications that are being administered to my horses. Thus far everyone has agreed to do this and maybe it is a wake-up call for me to be more involved in this end of the industry. I appreciate the responses by the majority of the people who I respect on this forum. As a horse lover as well as an owner I never want to see any of these animals abused so that the trainer can pad his win percentage which in turn gets more owners to gravitate to him. Thanks everyone for opening my eyes on this issue! Good luck at the track today!

onefast: As I said in my earlier posting (in what I also agree is one of the best threads we've had in a while), this does appear to be one of the solutions to the problem! I commend you as an owner and the vets that work for you for participating, and I would ask you to follow up as a licensed owner in those 3 states and let the regulatory agencies know that you recommend this practice and have begun doing it yourself. I am a licensee in Florida as well, and I will also mention this to the "powers that be" in Tallahassee..........

Boomer

[Greyfox]

The Ontario Racing solution borders on "genius."
Now Stewards and boards don't have to act like Perry Mason or Joe Colombo in figuring out who did what?

The horse is suspended. That is that.
No need to blame the trainer, the vet or the owner. The horse is suspended full stop.

Let the owner, trainer, and vet point fingers at one another.

Pure genius I say. Pure genius.

[DeanT]

Originally Posted by onefast99

This is by far one of the best threads yet on this forum. I have spoken to my trianer(s) yesterday and I emailed the three vets we use in NJ, Fla and Louisiana that they need to email me any medications that are being administered to my horses. Thus far everyone has agreed to do this and maybe it is a wake-up call for me to be more involved in this end of the industry. I appreciate the responses by the majority of the people who I respect on this forum. As a horse lover as well as an owner I never want to see any of these animals abused so that the trainer can pad his win percentage which in turn gets more owners to gravitate to him. Thanks everyone for opening my eyes on this issue! Good luck at the track today!

You are a hell of a good owner. Much success!

[kenwoodallpromos]

Originally Posted by onefast99

This is by far one of the best threads yet on this forum. I have spoken to my trianer(s) yesterday and I emailed the three vets we use in NJ, Fla and Louisiana that they need to email me any medications that are being administered to my horses. Thus far everyone has agreed to do this and maybe it is a wake-up call for me to be more involved in this end of the industry. I appreciate the responses by the majority of the people who I respect on this forum. As a horse lover as well as an owner I never want to see any of these animals abused so that the trainer can pad his win percentage which in turn gets more owners to gravitate to him. Thanks everyone for opening my eyes on this issue! Good luck at the track today!

How common is it for owners NOT to know exactly what medications the multi-thousand-dollar business asset is getting? If you have a vehicle you let and employee use do you say "put anything you want into the engine/tank, I do not want to know?
A trainer is the owner's service employee, agent, and representitive on the track. The horse is the owner's business asset.
If a business owner ever found out an employee was mistreating or not doing things exactly right with equipment or a vehicle, there would be hell to pay.