small track horse owners not paying for outrider - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

porchy44 · 12-02-2013, 04:49 PM

I notice this a occasionally at small tracks. I consider this a negative and will not bet the horse to win. Any thoughts on this ?

therussmeister · 12-02-2013, 05:10 PM

If an owner never pays for an outrider then any negative effects of no outrider is already embedded in their horses past performances, and the fact the horse has no outrider today can be ignored. In other words, if I believed no outrider is a negative, I would only pay attention to a change in outrider usage.

But I have no idea how much of an effect this has on a horses performance.

Mineshaft · 12-02-2013, 05:24 PM

Not paying for a pony person to me means the trainers is going cheap. Which means hes also going cheap on feed, vet work, meds, etc, etc. I will not bet that horse.

lamboguy · 12-02-2013, 05:35 PM

they use a pony to post to make sure horses don't run off before the race. sometimes a trainer instructs his rider to break away from the outrider to warm the horse up good.

DeltaLover · 12-02-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamboguy

they use a pony to post to make sure horses don't run off before the race. sometimes a trainer instructs his rider to break away from the outrider to warm the horse up good.

I do not think that ponies are used in any other place in the world, so probably they are not really necessary.

VeryOldMan · 12-02-2013, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by therussmeister

If an owner never pays for an outrider then any negative effects of no outrider is already embedded in their horses past performances, and the fact the horse has no outrider today can be ignored. In other words, if I believed no outrider is a negative, I would only pay attention to a change in outrider usage.

But I have no idea how much of an effect this has on a horses performance.

Solid post.

I don't attend live racing often, but see the "no outrider" at Charles Town regularly when I'm there live and can watch the horses being saddled, warm up, etc., etc. like you can't see completely on the Web. My gut says it isn't a factor, but now the OP has given me a reason to go back to CT. Curses!

magwell · 12-02-2013, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

I do not think that ponies are used in any other place in the world, so probably they are not really necessary.

You wouldn't say that if you have seen many NY bred races with a bunch of first time starters .....seriously though, they don't have to be NY breds

davew · 12-02-2013, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

I do not think that ponies are used in any other place in the world, so probably they are not really necessary.

I don't remember seeing them in Europe or Australia - and even seen some continental shippers in for GR 1's to North America that did not use pony horses.

nijinski · 12-02-2013, 07:21 PM

Correct regarding Europe and elsewhere .
It has long been a part of racing here and it works for many .
Some of our finest champions had a great bond with the pony that escorted them and they traveled with them too. If they are happy and relaxed going to post , that's fine with me .
It may well be another expense that the smaller stable is cutting out .
I guess the trend will have to be watched to see if there is a difference
in results .

chadk66 · 12-02-2013, 07:39 PM

wow, this post is classic. where do you guys come up with this stuff. you must not sleep at night. whether or not a horse has a pony horse with it in the post parade doesn't mean a damn thing. Most "cheap" trainers have their own pony horse and have their help pony the horse. It has nothing to do with trainers going on the cheap. Hell at ASD trainer Tommy Dodds used to saddle his horse then run out to the track and get on his pony and pony his own horse. It's just what he chose to do. So if a trainer was going to go on the cheap he would do what Tommy did. Nearly every barn has a lead pony.

Mineshaft · 12-02-2013, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadk66

wow, this post is classic. where do you guys come up with this stuff. you must not sleep at night. whether or not a horse has a pony horse with it in the post parade doesn't mean a damn thing. Most "cheap" trainers have their own pony horse and have their help pony the horse. It has nothing to do with trainers going on the cheap. Hell at ASD trainer Tommy Dodds used to saddle his horse then run out to the track and get on his pony and pony his own horse. It's just what he chose to do. So if a trainer was going to go on the cheap he would do what Tommy did. Nearly every barn has a lead pony.

99% of the time it has to do with going cheap. I know a trainer who didn't want to pay the $20 fee so he ponied his own horses. He wasn't even stabled at the track he shipped in. I know trainers and owners that don't do any vet work and don't use bute because they are cheap. And they don't win any races.

Rex Phinney · 12-02-2013, 08:11 PM

Pay closer attention to the Breeders Cup races, the Euros never use pony horses.

Assuming the horse can behave well enough for the jock to warm him up and get him in the gate it should be a non factor.

iceknight · 12-02-2013, 08:32 PM

Sweet! Did I finally find out where the term "pony up" comes from ?

Mineshaft · 12-02-2013, 08:43 PM

Im talking about when horses don't even get a pony. Some trainers use there own pony that is true but when a horse doesn't have a pony that is a negative for me.

chadk66 · 12-02-2013, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineshaft

Im talking about when horses don't even get a pony. Some trainers use there own pony that is true but when a horse doesn't have a pony that is a negative for me.

why? because the horse is so well behaved he can't run fast enough to win?