Religion II

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So, you're going to live forever, heh? Or did you always exist, so that you never came into existence?

The components of house don't disappear but the house can! A house can become a NON-HOUSE in a hurry any number of ways.

I'll bet the concept of two hydrogen atoms uniting with one oxygen atom and the result being a molecule that is necessary for life itself must make your head explode.

Drinking hydrogen and oxygen. Crazy isn't it.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

I'll bet the concept of two hydrogen atoms uniting with one oxygen atom and the result being a molecule that is necessary for life itself must make your head explode.

Drinking hydrogen and oxygen. Crazy isn't it.

If you say so...

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

(emphasis mine)

And this is precisely why you're not a born again disciple of Christ per Jesus' own words, which of course mean nothing to you. Having the Word of God within and having the Living Word within you are not mutually exclusive -- in fact, both are necessary! You cannot claim to have one without the other.
To have one without the other means you are not a true disciple.

If you had the Spirit of Christ within, it would be impossible for you to denigrate His Word as you have repeatedly done -- something Jesus never did!. Jesus, unlike you, is not divided against himself. If you had the Spirit of Christ within you, you would have the mind of Christ within! Heck...you can't even have that because you think Mind is mere illusion!

I bet you think even God doesn't have a mind. He's just a rolling fuzz ball of energy that you call "love", right?

I have quoted Jesus many times in this thread in the years this thread has been active. Yet you pretend to be lobotomized about that.

And what exactly do I disagree with Jesus about? Do you see me arguing with what he says? No I do not. But you do.

It is you who does not believe the most important thing he ever said, that the Kingdom of God/Heaven is within you. When you do not understand that, all that you read in the Bible is for nothing.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

In fact, note the second definition in the M-W:

Second definition of what?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

I have quoted Jesus many times in this thread in the years this thread has been active. Yet you pretend to be lobotomized about that.

And what exactly do I disagree with Jesus about? Do you see me arguing with what he says? No I do not. But you do.

It is you who does not believe the most important thing he ever said, that the Kingdom of God/Heaven is within you. When you do not understand that, all that you read in the Bible is for nothing.

Yes, you have quoted selectively and misinterpreted to boot what you have quoted in an attempt to support your beliefs.

Maybe, though, you're the one who is lobotomized since out of the other side of your mouth you have denigrated scripture repeatedly, telling us how unreliable it is because it's been "altered", "misrepresented" by dishonest people with their own agendas, etc. You have even told us that Jesus did not have the highest regard for his own scriptures! And then to pile on more insults to injury you have told us that spiritual truth cannot be expressed in mere words, thereby contradicting yourself whenever you have quoted scripture! Why do you quote scripture when it cannot be spiritual truth, according to you? You must have been quoting worldly rubbish to us all along, right?

And I would think one of the most important things Jesus said during his ministry was this:

John 3:17-21
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
NIV

Moreover, you keep conveniently forgetting that Jesus took away the kingdom from the Pharisees to whom he was addressing in Luke 17. In addition, I have provided about a dozen reasons why your interpretation is seriously flawed, and you have never attempted to refute any of it! You've been stuck on stupid from the very beginning.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Second definition of what?

Have a few cups of black java straight and you'll figure it out in the context. Meanwhile, here's mud in your eye....

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Are you that dense!?

Ad hominem!

Originally Posted by boxcar

Things that go in and out of existence cannot be eternal, according to the definition of "eternal".

Granted.

Originally Posted by boxcar

AND...since the universe by definition is the totality of the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated, then this means the universe itself cannot be eternal, ...

Non-sequitur!

Originally Posted by boxcar

... nor can we arbitrarily omit any thing or aspect of the universe observed or postulated, for then this would amount to equivocation by altering its definition.

Non-sequitur!

Originally Posted by boxcar

Additionally, what is eternal in its essence (or nature) is by definition timeless, having no beginning or end.

The converse is not true. That which has no beginning and no end is not necessarily infinite. Read up on non-Euclidean geometries. I can recommend a good book on the subject.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Therefore, to say that the universe is eternal or infinite flies in the face of reality, as we all know it to be, ...

Non-sequitur!

Originally Posted by boxcar

... and violates the laws of logic, specifically the Laws of Identity and Noncontradiction.

Non-sequitur!

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yes, you have quoted selectively and misinterpreted to boot what you have quoted in an attempt to support your beliefs.

You have too. The only difference is that I admit it.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Maybe, though, you're the one who is lobotomized since out of the other side of your mouth you have denigrated scripture repeatedly, telling us how unreliable it is because it's been "altered", "misrepresented" by dishonest people with their own agendas, etc.

It is a historical fact that the Bible which has countless versions for this very reason has been modified over and over again throughout the centuries.

Originally Posted by boxcar

You have even told us that Jesus did not have the highest regard for his own scriptures!

I never said that. I said Jesus broke the rules of the scriptures when appropriate and necessary.

Originally Posted by boxcar

And then to pile on more insults to injury you have told us that spiritual truth cannot be expressed in mere words, thereby contradicting yourself whenever you have quoted scripture! Why do you quote scripture when it cannot be spiritual truth, according to you? You must have been quoting worldly rubbish to us all along, right?

You keep proving yourself to be incapable of understanding simple things. To re explain:

There are no words that would do justice to the love of the Divine or the spiritual truth or spiritual self realization. It's day and night between printed words and actual experience. And as we have discussed in the past, words don't always translate meaning correctly in Biblical translations from one language to another.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Moreover, you keep conveniently forgetting that Jesus took away the kingdom from the Pharisees to whom he was addressing in Luke 17. In addition, I have provided about a dozen reasons why your interpretation is seriously flawed, and you have never attempted to refute any of it! You've been stuck on stupid from the very beginning.

Your argument was smoke. If you check out the KJV they still use the original quote of the Kingdom of Heaven is within you as opposed to your version of it "in our midst" .

For almost 20 centuries it was "the kingdom of Heaven is within you". But when morons like you decided they had no clue what Jesus was talking about here, they decided to change it to something as stupid and meaningless as they are.

There are many people in Hell who know more about the Bible than you and had punched their ticket to Heaven

Jesus is not interested in your ego or how much you know of the Bible or how much of it you can recite. The way you will communicate to him will be from your heart and the less you pay attention to your heart with gibberish and stay with your stupid ego the less you will reap from this life.

Heaven is within or no where. Heaven is not a geographical place.

Consider people with NDE's who meet loved ones. How do you think they link up in the afterlife? It is not through some intellectual map they have of Heaven. It is through the power of Love and its law of attraction.

God and Jesus and all the Saints and Angels did not become who they are by reading a flawed book but by the power in their hearts that is generated by God. You had to go out and get the book externally . But Divine Love comes standard within everyone and it is your job to find it in this life. I have experienced it and I am a witness that what Jesus said about the kingdom being within is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

You need to stop hiding behind your Book and start opening up to God's love within. Really experience it. Really feel it. Not think his love. Use your Heart, not your mind. Then you will be in Heaven on Earth,

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

You have too. The only difference is that I admit it.

I have quoted plenty of scripture that has refuted your nonsense and other scriptures that teach an different theology (if I dare use that word with you) than the nonsense you have been feeding us.

It is a historical fact that the Bible which has countless versions for this very reason has been modified over and over again throughout the centuries.

Different versions don't prove anything. The copies of the extant manuscripts we have of both the OT and NT are well over 95% in agreement. Any honest truth seeker who is not conversant in the original languages would know that the best route to understanding what the writers meant and how their original audiences would have understood them is to avail himself of multiple translations. Some translations lean more to literal translations (YLT, NASB, etc.), while other lean more to capturing the sense of the meaning (NIV, etc.).

You're argument is simple-minded and is no argument for all the many reasons I have shown -- reasons supported by scripture. And the fundamental flaw to your argument is that your interpretation does not even fit the immediate context of the passage.

I never said that. I said Jesus broke the rules of the scriptures when appropriate and necessary.

This statement shows how ignorant you are of the scripture. He never broke the rules; for if he had he would be a sinner like all of us. But Jesus denied being a sinner, remember!? He flawlessly and perfectly lived by his own standards, i.e the written Word of God which the Spirit of Christ inspired to the prophets and apostles.

You keep proving yourself to be incapable of understanding simple things. To re explain:

There are no words that would do justice to the love of the Divine or the spiritual truth or spiritual self realization. It's day and night between printed words and actual experience. And as we have discussed in the past, words don't always translate meaning correctly in Biblical translations from one language to another.

These words again prove you're an antichrist, since Jesus never expressed such sentiments. Quite the contrary! He actually rebuked people for not knowing the scriptures as they should have!

Your argument was smoke. If you check out the KJV they still use the original quote of the Kingdom of Heaven is within you as opposed to your version of it "in our midst" .

Well, yeah...what is your point!? A published translation DOES NOT change its words. A particular translation is not a floating one. 1,000 years from now, if this planet is still around, the KJV will print that text in Luke 17 exactly the same way.

]For almost 20 centuries it was "the kingdom of Heaven is within you". But when morons like you decided they had no clue what Jesus was talking about here, they decided to change it to something as stupid and meaningless as they are.

Wow! What an ignoramus you are! Incredible! The KJV hasn't been around for 20 centuries. Furthermore, no translation is divinely inspired. Only the original autographs were God-breathed and infallible. So, unless you can read and understand Koine Greek, you are the one blowing smoke!

The reasons other very credible translations -- with modern scholarship -- have changed translated the passage differently is because they came to realize that the "kingdom is within in" translation was really bad for all the many reasons I have cited -- if not more.

Also, you keep ignoring the fact that your "best friend" took away the kingdom from your fellow brothers in Satan and gave it to another nation.


There are many people in Hell who know more about the Bible than you and had punched their ticket to Heaven

Jesus is not interested in your ego or how much you know of the Bible or how much of it you can recite. The way you will communicate to him will be from your heart and the less you pay attention to your heart with gibberish and stay with your stupid ego the less you will reap from this life.

Heaven is within or no where. Heaven is not a geographical place.[/quote]

Heaven is both! You don't know your eschatology. And once again, you contradict your "best friend". I'm going to believe him before you --unless you can convince me why you're being truthful and why your "best friend" was such an spiritual moron or deceiver. Why should anyone believe you over Him?

Consider people with NDE's who meet loved ones. How do you think they link up in the afterlife? It is not through some intellectual map they have of Heaven. It is through the power of Love and its law of attraction.

God and Jesus and all the Saints and Angels did not become who they are by reading a flawed book but by the power in their hearts that is generated by God. You had to go out and get the book externally . But Divine Love comes standard within everyone and it is your job to find it in this life. I have experienced it and I am a witness that what Jesus said about the kingdom being within is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

You need to stop hiding behind your Book and start opening up to God's love within. Really experience it. Really feel it. Not think his love. Use your Heart, not your mind. Then you will be in Heaven on Earth,

The book is "flawed" due to very minor copyist errors over the many centuries (variances in spellings, in numbers and the like); but yet in no matters of Faith or Practice are there any contradictions. And, again, your "best friend" quoted very often from those "flawed" OT manuscripts and taught people that they were authoritative in matters of Faith and Practice.

When Jesus stood up in a synagogue and read from Isaiah and told his listeners that he fulfilled the passage he just read, was your "best friend" delusional or just an outright deceiver? Was he a lunatic or liar?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Ad hominem!

Granted.

Non-sequitur!

Non-sequitur!

The converse is not true. That which has no beginning and no end is not necessarily infinite. Read up on non-Euclidean geometries. I can recommend a good book on the subject.

Non-sequitur!

Non-sequitur!

Your entire reply is a non-sequitur. I would suggest you look up the definitions of "eternal" and "infinite' for starters. And the term "universe", as well. You don't get to pick and choose what is universe and what isn't.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Your entire reply is a non-sequitur. I would suggest you look up the definitions of "eternal" and "infinite' for starters. And the term "universe", as well. You don't get to pick and choose what is universe and what isn't.

infinite : any set which can be mapped one-to-one onto a proper subset of itself. -- Georg Cantor, famous mathematician.
eternal : infinite time -- Aristotle
universe : "All that is or has ever been or ever will be." -- Carl Sagen

I've explained it to you. I can't understand it for you.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

infinite : any set which can be mapped one-to-one onto a proper subset of itself. -- Georg Cantor, famous mathematician.
eternal : infinite time -- Aristotle
universe : "All that is or has ever been or ever will be." -- Carl Sagen

I've explained it to you. I can't understand it for you.

infinite:

Main Entry:1in£fi£nite
Pronunciation:*in-f*-n*t
Function:adjective
Etymology:Middle English infinit, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin infinitus, from in- + finitus finite
Date:14th century

1 : extending indefinitely : ENDLESS *infinite space*
2 : immeasurably or inconceivably great or extensive : INEXHAUSTIBLE *infinite patience*
3 : subject to no limitation or external determination
4 a : extending beyond, lying beyond, or being greater than any preassigned finite value however large *infinite number of positive numbers* b : extending to infinity *infinite plane surface* c : characterized by an infinite number of elements or terms *an infinite set* *an infinite series*
–in£fi£nite£ly adverb
–in£fi£nite£ness noun

eternal

Main Entry:1eter£nal
Pronunciation:i-*t*r-n*l
Function:adjective
Etymology:Middle English, from Middle French, from Late Latin aeternalis, from Latin aeternus eternal, from aevum age, eternity— more at AYE
Date:14th century

1 a : having infinite duration : EVERLASTING b : of or relating to eternity c : characterized by abiding fellowship with God *good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?— Mark 10:17 (Revised Standard Version)*
2 a : continued without intermission : PERPETUAL b : seemingly endless
3 archaic : INFERNAL *some eternal villain T devised this slander— Shakespeare*
4 : valid or existing at all times : TIMELESS *eternal verities*
–eter£nal£ize \-n*l-**z\ transitive verb
–eter£nal£ly \-n*l-*\ adverb
–eter£nal£ness noun

universe

Main Entry:uni£verse
Pronunciation:*y*-n*-*v*rs
Function:noun
Etymology:Latin universum, from neuter of universus entire, whole, from uni- + versus turned toward, from past participle of vertere to turn— more at WORTH
Date:1589

1 : the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated : COSMOS: as a : a systematic whole held to arise by and persist through the direct intervention of divine power b : the world of human experience c (1) : the entire celestial cosmos (2) : MILKY WAY GALAXY (3) : an aggregate of stars comparable to the Milky Way galaxy
2 : a distinct field or province of thought or reality that forms a closed system or self-inclusive and independent organization
3 : POPULATION 4
4 : a set that contains all elements relevant to a particular discussion or problem
5 : a great number or quantity *a large enough universe of stocksT to choose from— G. B. Clairmont*

Source for all the above: M-W Collegiate Dictionary.

There were no non sequiturs in my 9555. Love it, live it and learn it.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Happy will be the lost of Israel, whom the Holy One, blessed be He, has chosen from amongst
the Goyim, of whom the Scriptures say: "Their work is but vanity, it is an illusion at which we
must laugh; they will all perish when God visits them in His wrath." At the moment when the
Holy One, blessed be He, will exterminate all the Goyim of the world, Israel alone will subsist,
even as it is written: "The Lord alone will appear great on that day! . . .

Zohar, Vayshlah 177b

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Source for all the above: M-W Collegiate Dictionary.

What qualifies the M-W Collegiate Dictionary as a source of definitions?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

What qualifies the M-W Collegiate Dictionary as a source of definitions?

What qualifies any dictionary as the source of definitions?

Maybe dictionaries are like bible translations, and you should pick the dictionary that best floats your little bathtub boat.