You are mentoring a promising beginner...

[raybo]

Originally Posted by Capper Al

I agree. The only way to win and put up with all the work that has to be is by passion.

I agree with Rod and you both. Passion and commitment are quite desirable in a new player, or an old one for that matter, but since this thread is about new players and mentoring, what impassions the mentor, might not impassion his student. Loving horse racing, the racing, the horses and their beauty, and form, and tremendous strength, etc., IMO, cannot be taught, however, it can be learned, but not from the mentor necessarily. Certainly, one can become passionate about horse racing, either immediately or over time, but usually that comes about from that person's personal experiences with racing, over time, but much less frequently due to a mentor's teachings.

Passion is sort of open ended, also, you can be passionate about the horses, the racing, the betting, the profit, the challenge, etc., etc.. I, for one, am not truly passionate about anything except making profit, from racing, and especially the creation of tools to enable that, for myself and others.

So, regarding passion, IMO, one of the things a potential mentor should find out first is, are your passions similar to the student's, or are his/her passions likely to become similar to yours? If the answer is yes, then all the better, but if the answer is no, then you should probably adapt your mentoring, if you are able, to what "floats the boat" of the student. If you can't do that, then maybe you shouldn't mentor that student.

Handicapping and wagering, however, can be taught by a mentor, and I believe those are the things that a potential mentor should teach. The mentoring of a new player is plenty tough enough, as it is, without adding things to the mix that really can't, precisely or objectively, be taught.

[Capper Al]

Originally Posted by raybo

Handicapping and wagering, however, can be taught by a mentor, and I believe those are the things that a potential mentor should teach. The mentoring of a new player is plenty tough enough, as it is, without adding things to the mix that really can't, precisely or objectively, be taught.

Those who are able and willing to learn might be helped by a mentor. What I was questioning earlier was can it be for those who memorize 'How to' as it is for those who learn the 'Why'? I see most commercial software user as 'How to' players.

[turninforhome10]

Originally Posted by Capper Al

Those who are able and willing to learn might be helped by a mentor. What I was questioning earlier was can it be for those who memorize 'How to' as it is for those who learn the 'Why'? I see most commercial software user as 'How to' players.

I agree especially with the memorizing part. While going through training to be a Lab Tech, I was surrounded by a lot of folks who just memorize what they needed to pass the test. I thought that was almost a crime. These are fundamentals that you are going to need in order to eventually get the big picture. I remember later on in my career asking an ER doc a question that I had about a result. I knew the answer but thought it courtesy to ask. She stated " I don't remember that, that is 2nd year med school. I understand that she was busy and was probably having trouble thinking on her feet but really. My mentor taught me to take in all information good or bad and keep it handy. It might be the wrong thing now, but that could change later.

[pktruckdriver]

Wow, lot's off great stuff, things I use to participate in . Mentoring, which I have had a few people try to do, and 1 has , according to me, has done me wonders for my game. Thenothers help me, and I think to truly Mentor,
you must be willing to already have a winning game.

Stupid, not really, many have attempted to help me and did not know themselves how to win consisitently.

Also , to be mentored, you must truly be willing to commit, similar to being an intern during college, except this would be your actual college education, if learned and incorporated to make you a winner. I think most of the best mentor's are family members , really close family friends, as these people already know you, and if taken under their wing will do their best to make you succeed.


But the thread started with this

He wants you to take him by the hand, and guide him through the early, highly impressionable stage of a horseplayer's education.

What do you tell him?

That Sir, is up to you, are you willing to accept him into the fold, are you successful enough to be a true Mentor, this is what you must ask yourself.
Is your method teachable and are you a good enough teacher to teach it to him/her? If so, then why not ? Are there too many why not's , if so then you are not ready, otherwise , GO FOR IT !!!

Patrick

[raybo]

Originally Posted by Capper Al

Those who are able and willing to learn might be helped by a mentor. What I was questioning earlier was can it be for those who memorize 'How to' as it is for those who learn the 'Why'? I see most commercial software user as 'How to' players.

Of course, the new player should know "Why", in order to develop as a player from a strong fundamental foundation, but he/she should also know "How", whether he/she learns that on their own, or from the mentor, doesn't really matter which, other than the obvious time and frustration involved.

Software is based on some "Why(s)", in the mind of it's creator. Some of whom divulge that "Why" to the user, while others don't. The reason that some don't should be obvious. If a piece of software works for the user, that user need not know the "Why", only the "How", at least until that software quits working for them, then the "Why" would be nice to know, of course.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Originally Posted by raybo

I agree with Rod and you both. Passion and commitment are quite desirable in a new player, or an old one for that matter, but since this thread is about new players and mentoring, what impassions the mentor, might not impassion his student. Loving horse racing, the racing, the horses and their beauty, and form, and tremendous strength, etc., IMO, cannot be taught, however, it can be learned, but not from the mentor necessarily. Certainly, one can become passionate about horse racing, either immediately or over time, but usually that comes about from that person's personal experiences with racing, over time, but much less frequently due to a mentor's teachings.

Passion is sort of open ended, also, you can be passionate about the horses, the racing, the betting, the profit, the challenge, etc., etc.. I, for one, am not truly passionate about anything except making profit, from racing, and especially the creation of tools to enable that, for myself and others.

So, regarding passion, IMO, one of the things a potential mentor should find out first is, are your passions similar to the student's, or are his/her passions likely to become similar to yours? If the answer is yes, then all the better, but if the answer is no, then you should probably adapt your mentoring, if you are able, to what "floats the boat" of the student. If you can't do that, then maybe you shouldn't mentor that student.

Handicapping and wagering, however, can be taught by a mentor, and I believe those are the things that a potential mentor should teach. The mentoring of a new player is plenty tough enough, as it is, without adding things to the mix that really can't, precisely or objectively, be taught.

I remember the day someone took me to the track for the first time.It was just something to do at a time when escaping boredom,of the the short term and ADD variety,was the modus operandi for the day.Race starts,whatever,they turn for home and I hear this snorting and pounding of hooves.Can hear the anger and competition and arrrgggghhh in their sounds.Life as i knew it was over from that moment on.If I am mentoring a player,I take them out to the rail and see what effect it has on them.If they don't feel it,I would suggest they move on.We know the dark nights will be many(Ecclesiastes),and Ray,I doubt half of them have the resolve you do in nearly pure intellectual challenge.You are one of my mentors,even though we do not share a clear vision.Monk like existence for the formative years.Getting that today would be such a task!Bottomline IMO this is a borderline spiritual event as much as it is an intellectual endeavor.One feeds the other for me.I would want that in someone I was showing the game to.Mystique comes first.Winning comes after.That's the progression.

[bigga 1]

Any advice on how to properly wager for consistent profit.

[raybo]

Originally Posted by bigga 1

Any advice on how to properly wager for consistent profit.

Whew!!! Big open-ended question! Without knowing anything about you, your knowledge, your tools, your emotional balance, your bankroll, etc., etc., the first thing absolutely necessary for making consistent profit, is a consistent "edge", or advantage over the general public. If you don't have that edge, find it first. Keep very good records of all your selections in all the races you play/handicap, and the payouts you receive. Then after accumulating a lot of that data, go back and research the record keeping you have accumulated and find out where, exactly, your edge is, in what bet types, what tracks, what types of races, surfaces, distances, etc.. Once you find your "niche", concentrate your efforts on those bet types and race types. Yes, you can spend some time improving your results in other types of bets and races, but if you're after consistent profits, you should only play the races and bet types you have the edge in.

Patience, Discipline, and Consistency in every facet of your play, in both 'capping, and wagering, will bring you to the Promised Land. I can guarantee you that if your handicapping and/or wagering is all over the board, without a solid base, you will just be another gambler.

My 2 cents worth.

[Capper Al]

Originally Posted by bigga 1

Any advice on how to properly wager for consistent profit.

Takes Dave's class the 'Basics of Winning'.

[cj]

Originally Posted by bigga 1

Any advice on how to properly wager for consistent profit.

Easy...stick to betting horses that offer value. Now, can you identify those horses?

[Capper Al]

Originally Posted by cj

Easy...stick to betting horses that offer value. Now, can you identify those horses?

No.

[Mike A]

Originally Posted by Magister Ludi

1. First, take the Meyers-Briggs Type Indicator assessment. If your type dynamics are INTJ, continue. Otherwise, go no further. You probably don't have the personality type to truly succeed in this business.
2. Do not read any books about horse racing or handicapping.
3. Go back to school to get the following minimal education:

one of these:
BSCS - Massachusetts Institute of Technology
BSCS - Stanford
BSCS - Carnegie Mellon

and one of these:
MSCF - Carnegie Mellon
MSFE - Columbia
MEFE - Cornell

4. Now you have all of the skills that you need to make money in racetrack betting markets.

Regarding the Myers-Briggs, I hope you are kidding, since, to begin with re viability, the short version is that their system is a complete fabrication.

Nevermind the fact that personality typologies in general are usually worse than useless to put it bluntly.

And re getting all those degrees, I realize we all have our own opinions, and thask. was asking for just that, but I really think, or to put it more relevantly I just about flat-out know, that that would be a colossal waste of time, money and just overall resources.

(And yeah, 2shay in advance if I'm mistakenly taking what was meant as a joke seriously...I admit I'm not familiar with your previous posts )

But success at this game is a skill-set that is very learnable without any recourse to extensive training at top universities. Some very basic tools of thought are all that are necessary in terms of..well, tools of thought, i.e., some basics of inductive and deductive reasoning. And then developing a fundamental understanding of the game and respecting this framework consistently.

[turninforhome10]

Originally Posted by Mike A

Regarding the Myers-Briggs, I hope you are kidding, since, to begin with re viability, the short version is that their system is a complete fabrication.

Nevermind the fact that personality typologies in general are usually worse than useless to put it bluntly.

And re getting all those degrees, I realize we all have our own opinions, and thask. was asking for just that, but I really think, or to put it more relevantly I just about flat-out know, that that would be a colossal waste of time, money and just overall resources.

(And yeah, 2shay in advance if I'm mistakenly taking what was meant as a joke seriously...I admit I'm not familiar with your previous posts )

But success at this game is a skill-set that is very learnable without any recourse to extensive training at top universities. Some very basic tools of thought are all that are necessary in terms of..well, tools of thought, i.e., some basics of inductive and deductive reasoning. And then developing a fundamental understanding of the game and respecting this framework consistently.

Excellent post Mike,
In conclusion I would ask our newbie if they really want to join a profession that has
high rates of substance abuse
higher than normal rates of suicide and mental illness
higher than normal rates of divorce and relationship problems
no benefits with regards to health insurance and retirement
periods without income
10-14 hr days of the same thing every day(that is the real world to)
The list above is the real gamble for our newbie even before they place their first wager.
Then after a year of playing I would ask them to the answer the questions found on any 1-800 bets off flyer. If they are honest with themselves(this is key) then they be the only who will know for sure if this game is truly for them.

[raybo]

Originally Posted by Capper Al

No.

Ahhh - a truly honest man!

[atlasaxis]

Originally Posted by bigga 1

Any advice on how to properly wager for consistent profit.

Get Dick Mitchell's "Commonsense Betting" for a full answer to your question.