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Old 04-07-2021, 12:07 PM   #31
dilanesp
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I read about a study that set out to answer the question of whether equine bleeding is normal. After scoping many wild horses, the answer was no.

It would make sense that non-bleeding was inherited, since every single trait of every living creature was inherited, if you believe in evolution.
And to be more precise, it wouldn't be that bleeding/non-bleeding would be inherited, but that whatever pulmonary condition it is that increases the likelihood of bleeding would likely be a heritable trait.
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Old 04-07-2021, 02:17 PM   #32
The_Turf_Monster
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How many generations will that take? Will racing be around then?
It could be as simple as starting tomorrow by importing bloodstock from Europe or Australia from lines that are known to not bleed. The alternative is to run lasix-free for an extended period here and identify our own lines that donít bleed
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Old 04-07-2021, 02:52 PM   #33
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It could be as simple as starting tomorrow by importing bloodstock from Europe or Australia from lines that are known to not bleed. The alternative is to run lasix-free for an extended period here and identify our own lines that donít bleed
This is where it gets messy.

Some people have already paid millions of dollars for stallions and/or their offspring with an eye towards hopefully breeding them too.

If someone can demonstrate statistically that certain lines are more prone to bleeding and successfully argue they should be excluded, a lot of those investments will be damaged or go up in flames. So there isn't much incentive for owners and breeders to want to run without Lasix and potentially expose their horses and money to negative information.
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Old 04-07-2021, 03:10 PM   #34
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This is where it gets messy.

Some people have already paid millions of dollars for stallions and/or their offspring with an eye towards hopefully breeding them too.

If someone can demonstrate statistically that certain lines are more prone to bleeding and successfully argue they should be excluded, a lot of those investments will be damaged or go up in flames. So there isn't much incentive for owners and breeders to want to run without Lasix and potentially expose their horses and money to negative information.
What standard would "prove" something like that, who would set the standard, what would you do with all of the horses who don't meet the standard...it's impossible because it's not that cut and dried. The industry would be better off just banning Lasix and dealing with the lawsuits filed that follow rather than spending years of research trying to prove something unprovable.
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Old 04-07-2021, 03:44 PM   #35
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Yeah, how would we even know at this point? What "clean" lines are left? I doubt there is a stallion standing outside of Runhappy that didn't run on Lasix. Who knows which horses actually needed it and which didn't at this point?
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Old 04-07-2021, 03:48 PM   #36
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Imo, years of research and a proven standard are completely unnecessary.

Ban Lasix by phasing it out one crop at a time.

Do that - and I think it's a given that the first 3 year olds who race Lasix-free and notch a win or two in their Grade 1's will be swiftly retired and sent to the breeding shed.

Imo, everything will work out just fine. Markets have a way of taking care of things.



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Old 04-07-2021, 04:44 PM   #37
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Yeah, how would we even know at this point? What "clean" lines are left? I doubt there is a stallion standing outside of Runhappy that didn't run on Lasix. Who knows which horses actually needed it and which didn't at this point?
Maybe we should rename all races currently named after Lasix users, after Runhappy instead.
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Old 04-07-2021, 05:02 PM   #38
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What standard would "prove" something like that, who would set the standard, what would you do with all of the horses who don't meet the standard...it's impossible because it's not that cut and dried. The industry would be better off just banning Lasix and dealing with the lawsuits filed that follow rather than spending years of research trying to prove something unprovable.
You are right. My original point was that some people don't want to know anyway because it might hurt the value of their horses.

The reason I brought up studying it is that it's much easier to resist a ban when no one can even show you data demonstrating that it's messing up the breed (assuming it is).
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Old 04-07-2021, 06:01 PM   #39
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Imo, years of research and a proven standard are completely unnecessary.

Ban Lasix by phasing it out one crop at a time.

Do that - and I think it's a given that the first 3 year olds who race Lasix-free and notch a win or two in their Grade 1's will be swiftly retired and sent to the breeding shed.

Imo, everything will work out just fine. Markets have a way of taking care of things.

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Sounds about right and some very sound advice!
They also might want to contact those foreign racing jurisdictions that don't permit any medications particularly those that involve potential breeders to see if they can provide viable information about how the meds might impact the DNA of the breeding stock over a number of generations.
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:04 PM   #40
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Yeah, how would we even know at this point? What "clean" lines are left? I doubt there is a stallion standing outside of Runhappy that didn't run on Lasix. Who knows which horses actually needed it and which didn't at this point?
I donít recall Chrome having a problem with it. There are American stallions out there that won without needing Lasix. Itís just going to cost a bunch of Icarusí a bunch of money because they bought fools gold
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Old 04-07-2021, 09:53 PM   #41
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I donít recall Chrome having a problem with it. There are American stallions out there that won without needing Lasix. Itís just going to cost a bunch of Icarusí a bunch of money because they bought fools gold
That is my point, plenty horses probably didn't need it, but almost all the horses were using from debut to retirement so unless they shipped to Dubai we really don't know. And even then, we don't really know.
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Old 04-07-2021, 10:06 PM   #42
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Maybe we should rename all races currently named after Lasix users, after Runhappy instead.
By next year Jim will have that covered already......itís in the budget
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:14 AM   #43
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That is my point, plenty horses probably didn't need it, but almost all the horses were using from debut to retirement so unless they shipped to Dubai we really don't know. And even then, we don't really know.
Bettors might not know, bloodstock agents do. Itíll be fine and will turn some stallions into sires leading New Mexico breeding
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Old 04-08-2021, 09:37 AM   #44
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Bettors might not know, bloodstock agents do. Itíll be fine and will turn some stallions into sires leading New Mexico breeding
How could they know if a horse raced on Lasix every time out and didn't bleed through it?
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Old 04-08-2021, 09:48 AM   #45
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How could they know if a horse raced on Lasix every time out and didn't bleed through it?
There are horses at the highest levels that train on lasix, I think they know which of those are inherent bleeders and which ones are just taking it for the weight loss benefit
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