Religion II

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I did state that the Trinity finds its theological underpinnings in the OT -- that the Trinity is grounded in OT theology. Big difference.

Except it isn't. And the people whose language it is that wrote the OT will tell you that themselves. You have this one all wrong. Sorry bub.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

who is Adoniy in the OT?

Adoniy is not in the Bible. Not the KJV. Not the NASB.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Light

I'm not sure of the percentage, but 1st century "Jewish Christians" differed from other Jews only in their acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah.

First century Christians were mostly Greek.

[Actor]

What is this list supposed to prove?

God the Father

Genesis 1:1; 2:7; Exodus 3:14; 6:2-3; 15:11ff.; 20:1ff.; Leviticus 22:2; Deuteronomy 6:4; 32:6; 1 Chronicles 29:10; Psalm 19:1-3; Isaiah 43:3,15; 64:8; Jeremiah 10:10; 17:13; Matthew 6:9ff.; 7:11; 23:9; 28:19; Mark 1:9-11; John 4:24; 5:26; 14:6-13; 17:1-8; Acts 1:7; Romans 8:14-15; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Galatians 4:6; Ephesians 4:6; Colossians 1:15; 1 Timothy 1:17; Hebrews 11:6; 12:9; 1 Peter 1:17; 1 John 5:7.

God the Son

Genesis 18:1ff.; Psalms 2:7ff.; 110:1ff.; Isaiah 7:14; 53; Matthew 1:18-23; 3:17; 8:29; 11:27; 14:33; 16:16,27; 17:5; 27; 28:1-6,19; Mark 1:1; 3:11; Luke 1:35; 4:41; 22:70; 24:46; John 1:1-18,29; 10:30,38; 11:25-27; 12:44-50; 14:7-11; 16:15-16,28; 17:1-5, 21-22; 20:1-20,28; Acts 1:9; 2:22-24; 7:55-56; 9:4-5,20; Romans 1:3-4; 3:23-26; 5:6-21; 8:1-3,34; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 2:2; 8:6; 15:1-8,24-28; 2 Corinthians 5:19-21; 8:9; Galatians 4:4-5; Ephesians 1:20; 3:11; 4:7-10; Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:13-22; 2:9; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18; 1 Timothy 2:5-6; 3:16; Titus 2:13-14; Hebrews 1:1-3; 4:14-15; 7:14-28; 9:12-15,24-28; 12:2; 13:8; 1 Peter 2:21-25; 3:22; 1 John 1:7-9; 3:2; 4:14-15; 5:9; 2 John 7-9; Revelation 1:13-16; 5:9-14; 12:10-11; 13:8; 19:16.

God the Holy Spirit

Genesis 1:2; Judges 14:6; Job 26:13; Psalms 51:11; 139:7ff.; Isaiah 61:1-3; Joel 2:28-32; Matthew 1:18; 3:16; 4:1; 12:28-32; 28:19; Mark 1:10,12; Luke 1:35; 4:1,18-19; 11:13; 12:12; 24:49; John 4:24; 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-14; Acts 1:8; 2:1-4,38; 4:31; 5:3; 6:3; 7:55; 8:17,39; 10:44; 13:2; 15:28; 16:6; 19:1-6; Romans 8:9-11,14-16,26-27; 1 Corinthians 2:10-14; 3:16; 12:3-11,13; Galatians 4:6; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 5:18; 1 Thessalonians 5:19; 1 Timothy 3:16; 4:1; 2 Timothy 1:14; 3:16; Hebrews 9:8,14; 2 Peter 1:21; 1 John 4:13; 5:6-7; Revelation 1:10; 22:17.

[Light]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

but that's what the prophecy has basically said all along, has it not? A political messiah...not a God in the flesh..

Yes. They wanted a warrior Messiah to judge and strike down their enemies and establish "God's Kingdom" on Earth. Instead Jesus's message was forgiveness and peace while riding on a donkey into Jerusalem. Not fitting of the "King of Israel" in their eyes.

Ironically, I am still having this debate with you know who. He still thinks that this is how God works. Killing and hating everyone who doesn't believe in him.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Except it isn't. And the people whose language it is that wrote the OT will tell you that themselves. You have this one all wrong. Sorry bub.

Save your sorrow for those infidels and yourself. You can't even get get off home base with me and make it to first! You can't address the very first problem I have repeatedly thrown at you: Who is Yahweh and who is Adoniy in Ps 110:1, or for that matter in the entire OT? You're just as stumped and dumbfounded as the "enlightened" Jews of Jesus' day!

And who is the flesh and blood son that was to be born to the nation Israel and is also Israel's "Mighty God" and "Eternal Father" in Isa 9:6?

And you have never given an explanation for why the term "God" is expressed in the plural and singular forms in the OT, or how how could 'Eel be the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit per the OT prooftexts I provided in my post 783.

You really need to beg, borrow or steal some shame before you tell any born again Christian he has the Trinity doctrine all wrong.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You really need to beg, borrow or steal some shame before you tell any born again Christian he has the Trinity doctrine all wrong.

Never said you did. I said you have it wrong when you think there are subtle hints to it in the OT. And when you try and justify the Trinity by referencing the OT. It's a no go.

The Trinity may be fine and dandy and 100% valid, but it's nowhere in the OT and don't try and make it so. Square peg in round hole and all that.

Let the experts in the OT remain the experts, and you concentrate on your own area of expertise.

There are COUNTLESS refutations of your OT Trinity theory out there on the web...but you keep banging your head and screaming how it's all there and all fits together nicely for you to tell your tale.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Save your sorrow for those infidels and yourself. You can't even get get off home base with me and make it to first! You can't address the very first problem I have repeatedly thrown at you: Who is Yahweh and who is Adoniy in Ps 110:1, or for that matter in the entire OT? You're just as stumped and dumbfounded as the "enlightened" Jews of Jesus' day!

And who is the flesh and blood son that was to be born to the nation Israel and is also Israel's "Mighty God" and "Eternal Father" in Isa 9:6?

And you have never given an explanation for why the term "God" is expressed in the plural and singular forms in the OT, or how how could 'Eel be the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit per the OT prooftexts I provided in my post 783.

You really need to beg, borrow or steal some shame before you tell any born again Christian he has the Trinity doctrine all wrong.

You are so proud of your spiritual attainment...just like the priests and the Pharisees of old.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You can't address the very first problem I have repeatedly thrown at you: Who is Yahweh and who is Adoniy in Ps 110:1,

Here is Ps 110:1

Psalm 110:1King James Version (KJV)

The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

No mention of Yahweh or Adoniy.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You really need to beg, borrow or steal some shame before you tell any born again Christian he has the Trinity doctrine all wrong.

Yeah that's like disrespecting a "made man" in the Mafia. PA better watch out! (LOL)

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Never said you did. I said you have it wrong when you think there are subtle hints to it in the OT. And when you try and justify the Trinity by referencing the OT. It's a no go.

The Trinity may be fine and dandy and 100% valid, but it's nowhere in the OT and don't try and make it so. Square peg in round hole and all that.

Let the experts in the OT remain the experts, and you concentrate on your own area of expertise.

There are COUNTLESS refutations of your OT Trinity theory out there on the web...but you keep banging your head and screaming how it's all there and all fits together nicely for you to tell your tale.

I wouldn't lean too heavily on that wood, hay and stubble that you call "COUNTLESS refutations" when you cannot answer any of my questions that I have put to you. Those OT passages I have used that you call "subtle hints" have been enough to close your mouth and affirms what you stated the other day when you said that you have no answers. Truer words never spoken from your duplicitous mouth. You're nothing more than a phony, empty suit, PA, just trying the hardest you can to stir up trouble. Good luck with that.

And by the way for your info...there are countless refutations on the web to your beloved "COUNTLESS refutations".

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Here is Ps 110:1

No mention of Yahweh or Adoniy.

The ignorance in here is growing darker by the moment. Pretty soon I'll be able to slice through it with a knife! Even PA understands that those are Hebrew nouns -- two different "Lords" -- one speaking to the other.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

[/COLOR]

You are so proud of your spiritual attainment...just like the priests and the Pharisees of old.

My "spiritual attainment" was given to me by God's grace. But what would you know about grace -- other than you think you don't need any.

But hey...PA admitted his ignorance when he said he has no answers, yet he continues to charge like a wounded bull intent on goring the wind.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The ignorance in here is growing darker by the moment. Pretty soon I'll be able to slice through it with a knife!

I could slice through your ignorance of science long ago.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Even PA understands ...

Does he?

Originally Posted by boxcar

... that those are Hebrew nouns -- two different "Lords" -- one speaking to the other.

That much is obvious. But are you claiming that one of the "Lords" is Yahweh and the other is Adoniy? If so then where do you get Yahweh and Adoniy from? Neither of those words are in the Bible, neither the KJV nor the NASB.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I wouldn't lean too heavily on that wood, hay and stubble that you call "COUNTLESS refutations" when you cannot answer any of my questions that I have put to you. Those OT passages I have used that you call "subtle hints" have been enough to close your mouth and affirms what you stated the other day when you said that you have no answers. Truer words never spoken from your duplicitous mouth. You're nothing more than a phony, empty suit, PA, just trying the hardest you can to stir up trouble. Good luck with that.

And by the way for your info...there are countless refutations on the web to your beloved "COUNTLESS refutations".

Yes, I know, whenever someone presents troubling info that causes you to actually think, it's stirring up trouble.

https://ohr.edu/ask/ask00j.htm

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/trinity.html