Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Handicapping Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 12-12-2022, 02:30 PM   #1
1st time lasix
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,043
Medium pick five payouts….

Curious——Wonder if any of the stat guys here are aware of medium… average payouts for popular fifty cent pick fives at major tracks in Florida,…. NY…. And Kentucky I have my own personal experience and player bias…..but wonder if there is any empirical data? Also- wonder- if heavy favorites that get beat early or late in sequence may skew overlay “will pays.” Thanks in advance for any educated opinions.
1st time lasix is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-13-2022, 09:01 AM   #2
wisconsin
Registered User
 
wisconsin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mukwonago, WI
Posts: 3,208
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st time lasix View Post
Also- wonder- if heavy favorites that get beat early or late in sequence may skew overlay “will pays.” Thanks in advance for any educated opinions.
The earlier a favorite, especially a heavy one, gets knocked-out, the better. Conversely, in a middle leg, a high morning line horse that is on your ticket that gets bet down and wins is also a bonus.
__________________
"I don't always frequent message boards, but when I do, I prefer PaceAdvantage."
wisconsin is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-15-2022, 07:48 AM   #3
deelo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: LNN
Posts: 524
So I've often thought about this many times and asked several different players their opinion. Collectively, I've gotten two completely opposite sides of the spectrum for answers.

#1 Players wanna be live. They start with Leg 1 wanting to cover all logical contenders but due to budget constraints, end up too skinny in the last legs. Therefore, catching a price in Leg 5 pays better.

#2 Players wanna be live...but when starting with Leg 1 they already know in their head they have those budget constraints as well as how sick the feeling is to sweat out the last half of a sequence when you know you aren't as deep as you want to be so they'd much rather sweat the first half of sequence. They force themselves to go skinny in the first legs so they can relax and start spreading near the end. Therefore, catching a price in Leg 1 pays better.

So basically...which of these pays better?
#1 2/1 4/1 4/1 4/1 15/1
#2 15/1 4/1 4/1 4/1 2/1

Haven't been able to find any hard/reliable data on who's right.
__________________
They didn't take your money...You paid for lessons
deelo is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-15-2022, 09:47 PM   #4
1st time lasix
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,043
IMO:The experienced pick five players …and the algorithm money has made it more difficult to get a juicy overlay payout. However I find that if I can somehow find a double digit odds winner anywhere in the sequence that “ separates”….And ….having a vulnerable heavily bet odds lose ( particularly early) ….gets a payout $ near a grand In order to get over 2 grand- at least two odds on favorites have to miss. I try to either omit the chalk in leg one or leg two. Of course with five races there are plenty of bad beats… bad rides…and bad luck. I assume that many player hedge the back-end of this multi- race wagers. I’ve read that is a bad strategy ……but I tend to do it if I have already caught a price.
1st time lasix is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-16-2022, 07:08 PM   #5
castaway01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by deelo View Post
So I've often thought about this many times and asked several different players their opinion. Collectively, I've gotten two completely opposite sides of the spectrum for answers.

#1 Players wanna be live. They start with Leg 1 wanting to cover all logical contenders but due to budget constraints, end up too skinny in the last legs. Therefore, catching a price in Leg 5 pays better.

#2 Players wanna be live...but when starting with Leg 1 they already know in their head they have those budget constraints as well as how sick the feeling is to sweat out the last half of a sequence when you know you aren't as deep as you want to be so they'd much rather sweat the first half of sequence. They force themselves to go skinny in the first legs so they can relax and start spreading near the end. Therefore, catching a price in Leg 1 pays better.

So basically...which of these pays better?
#1 2/1 4/1 4/1 4/1 15/1
#2 15/1 4/1 4/1 4/1 2/1

Haven't been able to find any hard/reliable data on who's right.
I don't have any idea how you'd prove something so specific, so there probably isn't going to be data that conclusively answers your question.

I think that both situations you mentioned are likely to lead to lower payoffs in general because that's when people key---they like to start with something they're confident in, or they want to be alive so they spread early and narrow the ticket late. It's probably not so significant as to matter though to where I would factor it into my play (because there are such a wide range of possible outcomes). I would key what I had confidence in and not worry about the leg.

As 1st Lasix said, the real key is beating one heavy favorite. If you can beat two, you're going to do very well. It's not the 5-2 winners that suck up the pool as much as those 4-5 sure things that everyone has. If you can beat those, then you've got something going.
castaway01 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply





Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
» Current Polls
Wh deserves to be the favorite? (last 4 figures)
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.